Mission Transition: SkillBridge’s Role in Civilian Careers | The Pair Program Ep51

Tim Winkler: 00:00:05

Welcome to The Pair Program from hatchpad, the podcast that gives you a front row seat to candid conversations with tech leaders from the startup world. I'm your host, Tim Winkler, the creator of hatchpad, and I'm your other host, Mike Gruen. Join us each episode as we bring together two guests to dissect topics at the intersection of technology, startups, and career growth. Welcome back to The Pair Program. I'm your host, Tim Winkler, alongside my co host, Mike Gruen. Uh, Mike, all the, all the talk around here is, is back to school. Um, so are your, your kids, are they the type that are like super excited about that? Are they dreading it? Oh yeah. Two

Mike Gruen: 00:00:49

teenage boys. Oh, they're raring to go back. They are now. They, I was going to say, the only, the only, um, I think the only exciting thing is that for my older one, he's a senior, so that'll be nice. Uh, sort of the end is in sight, at least for high school. And then my, um, my younger one is going to be a freshman this year. So he's going to do school. So there's a mix of excitement and, you know, I'm sure anxiety and dread, um, going to do all that. So,

Tim Winkler: 00:01:18

um,

Mike Gruen: 00:01:18

but yeah, I always love to see

Tim Winkler: 00:01:20

like all the parents with just a look of glee on their face. Like get these kids out of here. I've had enough. The summer's over a little bit. I don't know.

Mike Gruen: 00:01:28

I like having them around, um, during the summer. Um, I don't know. You're just saying that because this

Tim Winkler: 00:01:34

isn't going to go live and they'll No, no, no, not at all. Your wife will stream it.

Mike Gruen: 00:01:38

No, not at all because I do also, when they go to school, the nice thing about them coming home from school is that it's like a nice, like a little reminder, like, Hey, like, this is how many hours I've been working. Um, so it's sort of a nice little reminder of like, start wrapping things up. Um, because I think I put them, put everybody home all the time. It's, it's easy to go till nine o'clock at night and not even realize it.

Tim Winkler: 00:02:01

Are you just saying that because your boss is going to stream this and hear this? Yeah, that's a, that's actually, that's absolutely it. Nailed it. Uh, my, uh, my parent, my parent will, will, will play off of back to school. So, um. There you go. All right, good stuff. Well, uh, let's go ahead and, uh, uh, give the listeners a little bit of a preview of what we're, we're talking about, uh, on this, today's episode. So we've got a pretty action packed episode for, for our listeners. It's, it's centered entirely around, um, uh, the Department of Defense Skill Bridge Program. Uh, so for those not familiar, the Skill Bridge Program is an opportunity for, uh, military service members to To gain a valuable civilian work experience through specific industry training or apprenticeships or internships during their last 180 days of service. Uh, so skill bridge connects these, uh, transitioning service members with industry partners and real world job experiences. So this will be a useful episode for, for startups and employers that are looking to, to maybe engage or hire service members and likewise for Um, you know, uh, military members transitioning into civilian life. Uh, this will be a nice little, uh, maybe how to, if you've never dabbled with it before. Uh, so with us today is, uh, John Sokol, uh, former naval flight officer with 20 years of, uh, distinguished military service, uh, who successfully transitioned into civilian life through the skill bridge program. Uh, and then alongside John, we have Cameron Watts, the innovation director at a dual use startup, Zero Eyes. Uh, that hires extensively through the skill bridge program. Uh, and I'll point out that Cam has a military background as well as a former member of the 75th Ranger Regiment. Uh, paired with a career in the world of venture capital prior to joining zero eyes as well. So John and Cam, thank you both for your service and thank you for joining us on The Pair Program today.

Cameron Watts: 00:03:59

Thanks for having us. Absolutely. Pleasure to be here.

Tim Winkler: 00:04:01

All right. Uh, so before we dive in, we do kick things off with our pair me up segment. Uh, here's where we all kind of go around the room and spitball a complimentary pairing of our choice. Mike, uh, you lead us off. What do you, what do you got?

Mike Gruen: 00:04:14

So today's, um, is not particularly exciting, but I'm excited about it. Cause I'm a nerd, um, knickknacks and museum wax. So as you can see behind me, those who can't, I have a bunch of stuff on the shelves back here. Um, we also have cats and there's also not a lot of space. So just this morning, uh, I got some museum wax. It arrived. I'm looking forward to sticking all of my things down so they stop falling over. So, um, and it's what they use in museums. It's like, you, it's semi permanent. Like you can move them, but like, it's, it's. They're down and it's not meant for like moving them around again. So, uh, but it's, it comes off clean and all that, but I'm, I'm excited to get all my stuff locked down back there. Cause I'm tired of cleaning it up. Uh, bring it back.

Tim Winkler: 00:05:01

And that is you're nerding out on this one. That was, that was, uh, I've never heard of that. I didn't even know that was a thing. Oh,

Mike Gruen: 00:05:08

I stumbled on it and I, I had no idea that it existed. And then I read it, somebody posted something about it and I was like, oh, I need to look into that. That's, I need that in my life. I,

Tim Winkler: 00:05:18

I remember my uncle used to have these, um, little shadow boxes that would hang on the wall, you know, and just put like these little trinkets in it and, you know, someone was roughhousing around, it'd bump into the wall. Like they all, they all just kind of like fall out. So I could see museum wax being a. A useful, uh, addition to something like that, but yeah. All right. Um, cool. All right. I'll, I'll, uh, I'll jump in. Uh, so again, kind of given that it's back to school week, uh, I'll turn back the hands of time to when I was in elementary school and thinking about some classic pairings from like a snack and lunch perspective, I was going to go with Lunchables and Capri Suns. Uh, it's like a good one, two punch for like food and drink. in elementary school back in the day. I don't know if they even still make these, uh, processed foods, uh, like they, like they used to, but for those that don't remember Lunchables, uh, I feel sorry for you cause they were amazing, but they're these little individual pre packaged meals. With lunch meats and little cheeses and crackers. So it's like a little kid version of a charcuterie board and then Capri suns. If you don't know what Capri suns are, then I just, I might've lost her words, but it's a staple kid drink, uh, packed with sugar and. They come in that little impossible to open metallic pouch that you stab with a straw and it just spills everywhere. Um, those, that's my, that's my, yeah, throwback, uh, pairing. So I'm going Lunchables and, uh, and Capri Suns. You guys know what I'm talking about with Lunchables, right? I'm too old. You don't remember,

Mike Gruen: 00:06:56

Mike? It's not that I don't remember. I was, I was in college. Like, yeah.

Cameron Watts: 00:07:01

You really showed your age there by, by defining the two. You know, you can sort of throw in the dunkaroos with those as well. Some gushers. Exactly. There still exists, but they're on that like side of the aisles that, you know, you don't go anymore. You're at the forbidden, the forbidden aisle.

Tim Winkler: 00:07:21

Uh, all right, cool. Let's, let's pass it over to our guest. Uh, John, we'll start, start with you a quick intro and your pairing.

John Sokol: 00:07:29

Yeah. So, hey, how are you doing? Uh, John, so cool. Uh, again, Serve Navy naval flight officer flew, which is playing probably barely ever seen. If you look close on aircraft carrier, you'll kind of see it in a corner because no 1 likes it because it has propellers and it's not a jet that does cool stuff. So, uh, but again, look quick. You'll see it. Uh, did that for 20 years, retired last year, then joined the company I work for now, which is called Two Circle, which we do, uh, consulting work for the Navy. So it's been great. Uh, go back to the pairing. So I'm originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, a big Steelers fan. I was thinking through, you know, kind of, Time of season right now getting excited for the start of the season, and I think for me, a good pairing opening day of football, especially in the Steelers this year, play one o'clock game against the Falcons, you know, a couple Sundays from now, opening a day of football and a good cold beer.

Tim Winkler: 00:08:26

That's

John Sokol: 00:08:26

my

Tim Winkler: 00:08:26

preach. I'm getting super excited. It's that, uh, there's that crisp crispness in the air that always like makes me feel like the football season is about to begin. So I as well, I'm getting pretty excited. We're Commander's fans here, you know, it's complete 180 on our, on our, uh, entire team coaching staff. So there's a lot to look forward to considering we won what four games last year, but, um, yeah, you guys are, uh, you guys are always, you know, in contention, I think, right.

John Sokol: 00:08:58

I mean, I feel like this year, this is one of those, you can tell me they're going to be, you know, five and 12 or 12 and five, both of which are completely reasonable. So I, it'll be an interesting season.

Tim Winkler: 00:09:10

It'll entirely dictate your, your credit card bill on the alcohol consumption, uh, throughout the season. I like that one beer or 50. We'll see how the game goes. Um, cool. Well, thanks again for joining us. Cam, how about yourself? Quick intro and you're pairing.

Cameron Watts: 00:09:28

Yeah, absolutely. So camera Watts, uh, as, as you said, uh, spent some time with, uh, first range of battalion, uh, down in Savannah at hunter army airfield, uh, which is where I still live over here in Savannah. So enjoying the humidity and the heat. Um, but, uh, yeah, so we're covering venture capitalists who has now worked, uh, at a, uh, a portfolio company that we invested in years ago and, um, on the product team as the investment director at zero eyes. Um, working on weapons detection. Um, so I'm going to let that kind of lead into, uh, my perfect pairing, which is birdies and bullets. So I got the golf clubs and then the weapons detection. So, uh, that's the perfect pairing for me. Birdies and bullets. I do shoot as well. So I, uh, I'll keep neither one is as straight as I'd like it to be. So yeah.

Tim Winkler: 00:10:13

I was going to say, how many birdies are you averaging out there on a round?

Cameron Watts: 00:10:16

Yeah, so it, uh, right now I'd say none, um, but, uh, you know, I think I'm about a 14 handicap, 13 these days. So sounds like they

Tim Winkler: 00:10:27

trickle in women, but it holds her short. Sounds like you and I would be great car partners. I'm right. I'm right there with you.

Cameron Watts: 00:10:33

I'm a blast to play with. That's all that matters.

Tim Winkler: 00:10:35

Hey, we actually talked earlier. I'll be down there in a month or so. So looking forward to, uh, you know, teeing it up with you. Awesome. Well, thanks. Thanks again for joining us, Cam. Um, and, uh, that'll kind of wrap us up on, on the, uh, pair me up segment. So let's go ahead and transition into the heart of the discussion. So like I mentioned, we're, we're talking about the skill bridge program on today's episode and. Uh, so I was doing some additional research both on, on skill bridge and a little bit more on, on zero eyes cam. And I stumbled across an interesting quote from one of your co founders, uh, and the COO of zero eyes, Rob Huberty, uh, who's a former Navy SEAL. And for a little further context, you know, zero eyes is a veteran owned and operated company founded by former Navy SEALs. We'll get, we'll get more into that. But this quote, I wanted to share it with our listeners because I think it's a great jump off to the conversation around the importance of skill bridge, um, beyond just, you know, the opportunity specifically as, as well, but Rob said, uh, and I quote, my transition from the military to civilian life was more difficult than I imagined. I struggled to find meaning in the corporate world. Uh, so did the rest of the Zero Eyes team. After the military, we all had jobs that were generally considered good, maybe even great, and went to universities considered excellent. But we lacked a mission driven purpose. Um, there's a little bit more to the quote, but I just I'm gonna end it right there. So I wanted to start the discussion with UCAM and maybe expanding a little bit more on a little bit on the origin story of Zero Eyes and how Skill Bridge has become a. Maybe a fundamental part of the growth, uh, at the startup. And then from there, we can dive a little bit deeper into the, how the, how the program works, uh, from the employer perspective, and then we'll bounce over to you, John, and hear from, you know, the candidate perspective, somebody going through the program. So, so Cam, why don't you lead us off?

Cameron Watts: 00:12:28

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, Rob's quote could not be more heartfelt on my end as well. So, um, when I got out, I was, you know, treading water, trying to figure out what to do next, but, but I can get to that later. So, uh, Zero Eyes was, was, uh, brought to inception, um, from, like I said, a group of Navy SEALs, uh, Mike Leahy, the CEO, um, you know, there was some, some active shooter scenarios going on. And his daughter looked at him one day and asked if that was going to happen at his school, at her school. And, uh, you know, he started at P. K. Meetings and things kind of probing him. Hey, what sort of protocols do you have in place and things like that? And he kind of just the more and more he dove into it. Um, you know, the more and more scared he got of the situation. So, uh, instead of, uh, you know, sitting back and worrying about it, decided to do something. And, uh, created what we have today, uh, you know, started with, uh, a bunch of guys in the basement walking around, uh, and putting guns up in front of different cameras and getting them to register it from different angles. So, um, since then, you know, 6, 7 years now, and, uh, series B just did a, uh. A pretty nice funding round. So, um, yeah, and then besides starting with veterans, um, being founded by veterans, that, that mission driven group and, and, and finding that purpose has really been so deep into the culture that it's incredible. Um, it, it brought me in and, and, uh, you know, brings a lot of us into the, to the unit. Uh, and again, we kind of look at it as a unit, right? Everybody's got your back and everybody gets what they need to get done. And there's a lot less of that. You know, red tape and bureaucracy that you see at some of the large organizations. Um, but, but, yeah, so skill bridge has been incredible, uh, benefit to zero eyes. I think just a quick number for you over the past 2 years, we've hired out 22 of the, uh, skill bridge in there. So, uh, huge opportunity for us to pull great talent in and then bring them on, um, you know, immediately following their internship.

Mike Gruen: 00:14:27

That's awesome.

Tim Winkler: 00:14:28

So how, how does it, how does it work? So how, how does, uh, an organization kind of get involved? Um, and then what are the, what are the benefits from, you know, everything from like, skills, you know, work ethic or, um, cost, you know, where, where might there, where are, are some of these ad advant advantages to an employer getting involved?

Cameron Watts: 00:14:51

Yeah, so so realistically, you know, you're getting let's kind of start with best practices. I think is that so so as the organization, you, you sign up through skill bridge and you put yourself out there saying, hey, we're open up to opportunities. And here's kind of the list there. And again, this is me learning in hindsight, because it did not exist on on my exodus. But, you know, so so it's out there and. You, the candidate will go on, look, look at the organization, either done by maybe region or, you know, organization type, what, what industry it's in, things like that kind of filter it down for them, and then they'll, uh, submit a resume that'll come in and, uh, you know, we, we actually have a dedicated skill bridge kind of owner at, at zero eyes that, that. Manages all of that, and it goes out and really started to push further initiatives into skill bridge because it's been so successful for us. But, um, you know, go in there and then start to pair them not only with what their resume says, or what their military, um, you know, kind of background was because that doesn't always immediately translate. So then kind of start to do a little bit of a. Personality and character traits that that'll match with certain parts of the organization. Um, you know, hey, this, this 1 will fit over here at ops. This 1 may want to be on the install team. This 1 makes that on the product team, et cetera. Um, and we've also looked at kind of rotational programs to kind of say, okay, hey, this is this is somebody who's got a decent skill set in a couple of different areas. But could really hone and gain some exposure in other areas of business. And then they can hop around the organization through different departments, which, which really allows them to, uh, build some experience quickly. And that's extremely advantageous because it's kind of that catch 22, right? Like, Hey, how do I get experience without having experience? Right. And, uh, you know, so it kind of pushes that, um, a little bit inwards. And, and then from there, I think, you know, if it's not a fit for zero eyes, one of the benefits, the kind of the startup ecosystem and the venture ecosystem is the networking that that's done. So we also, if it doesn't fit for us or maybe we don't fit for them, we very quickly open up our Rolodex and start to place them at other places as well. So, um, you're getting talent that you wouldn't necessarily get to see. And, uh, as well as just the talent that's there. Yeah. They're not typically putting themselves out there because they kind of have a little bit of an imposter syndrome. Maybe they're getting out and they don't think that they're qualified enough yet. So they're, they're not pushing into those, uh, arenas yet, but, but everybody's got the opportunity and the chance. So getting that visibility is, is really been successful for us.

Tim Winkler: 00:17:27

Yeah, I think that's really interesting. Like the, like the carousel approach where it's like, you know, spend some time in finance and spend some time in product, spend some time here and there. So. Um, I think that's, uh, I've seen that in, in internships before. And I think that's a really nice approach to folks that don't really always know what they're going to do.

Cameron Watts: 00:17:46

That's right. I was raised with the mindset of, uh, to the man with, with only a hammer, every problem's a nail. So, uh, now I just try to keep building my toolbox, uh, instead of just having a hammer.

Tim Winkler: 00:17:57

I love it. I was curious on cost. Is there a cost to the, the employer, um, or is there actually a savings considering It sounds like these, these individuals are still, are they, are they most, most, for the most part act still active duty for the last 180 days?

Cameron Watts: 00:18:14

Yeah, that's right. So, you know, kind of best practices of it would be to start figuring that out about 180 days out and in a perfect scenario, you, you, you get a hybrid situation or it can be kind of full time, um, on premises, right? It just, it's really up to the, uh, the candidate themselves, um, or to the company and how they set it. We, we are a relatively hybrid, uh, organization. So, so we're open to that. And, uh, you know, we also have full time remote positions, but we also have ones in the office. And we have a. Location in Hawaii. So, uh, I feel there's probably a lot of appeal to go there for 180 days. So I think that's something that will really ramp up here shortly, uh, at our ZOC, the Zero Eyes Operation Center out there. So, um, yeah, there's no cost to the company, uh, no cost to the individual there. It's technically like they just took a, you know, a little break for 180 days before they get out officially and then go hop on, um, hop on the bus and see where it takes them.

Tim Winkler: 00:19:12

Cool. We'll, um, we'll, we'll, we'll get a little bit deeper into it. Um, as we, as we get through a little bit more of John's, uh, feedback on the program as well, because we actually had a former guest on the program, uh, on The Pair Program that, um, you know, kind of talked a little bit more about, uh, uh, a startup that he was building that. I saw some holes in the program where there was room for some improvement. Um, but, uh, I, I do want to hear John from your perspective, you know, walk me through, you know, uh, from a service members, you know, mindset, you know, getting introduced to skill bridge, you know, is there. Is there a lot of awareness around it? Um, how did you hear about it? And then how was your experience kind of transitioning using the program?

John Sokol: 00:20:00

Yeah, so, um, I guess everything Cam said is pretty accurate as far as like, uh, my experience as well once I got to my skill bridge. Uh, so, leading up to, uh, Uh, my actual retirement, which was last March 1st or whatever. Um, I started looking around. I mean, I think skill bridge at this point is one of those things that I think most service members have probably heard of. The problem is it's like, you can't get from God that I've heard of it. Now, how do I actually do it? And that's where I think, you know, there's like kind of a disconnect with all these guys and, you know, ladies and everything coming out, it's like. There's no, there's no formalized process. There's no, I'm going to call the school bridge office today and talk to them and they can help me out in this process. So, you know, from that, you know, you kind of have to be a little more forward leaning and, um, which is easy enough for me, you know, a little more senior. Kind of been around things, kind of understand how organizations work. So for me to do it, it really wasn't hard, you know, as far as the Navy was concerned, it was literally a single sheet of paper. I filled it out, handed it to my boss. He signed it and I was done. And then I was kind of free to start looking around for scope, rich, you know, opportunity. Um, and I did that same thing went to that lousy website that, you know, you can filter out, go by region, all that kind of stuff. I live in Virginia, so I wanted to stay close by and I did, uh, found 1 with steel, the chainsaw manufacturer. And, uh, which was awesome. Kind of the same thing. Like Cam said, for them, we had, there was a, uh, you know, it was like that point of contact that was on the website, contacted them again, kind of had to be forward leaning, go in there. I eventually talked to somebody who got me in touch eventually with a guy. Basically what he did, he was like, Hey, he's like going to the website, look at job openings. Pick a department you might think is interesting and then we'll kind of go from there. And so I picked e commerce just because it was something kind of outside of obviously what I've done and seemed interesting. So he got me in contact with the director of e commerce there, which by the way, steel, you know, you see them all over commercials, everything like that. At that point. In the United States, the e commerce department at seal was one human being, that guy, which still kind of blows my mind away, but I would just think they would have a few more folks. So, you know, like you're talking to him, he's like, yeah, it's me. You know, we, uh, talked to him for a while and he's like, yeah, I think it'd be a good fit. And, uh, you know, we were off to the races. He brought me on, uh, kind of did the same thing, just like, uh, Cam was saying He was awesome dude to, uh, work for and with and everything. He was like, Hey, you know, if e commerce isn't your thing. And really at that point, I kind of realized it wasn't my thing. Cause it was a, uh, like analytics type, uh, role. And I just couldn't be like heads down a computer, just analyzing data all the time, which is kind of not how I work. So, uh, but that was fine. It was, you know, in and of itself, that was the education I learned. Do you, you know, sometimes it's not just learning that day. I love this thing. It's learning. I don't love this thing too. So that's what, that was my case. Yeah. Uh, but he allowed me to go around to the different departments in steel and just kind of talk to folks, get a feel for what they do, see if anything interests me around those different offices as well. So, all in all, I mean, it was a fantastic opportunity. I'd recommend, obviously, everyone do it. Um. I guess, you know, and I don't know if we're going to go down the road if you want to wait, but, uh. You know, the big the big barriers. You know, for the for the military side of it is that wherever you're working at that place has to basically accept that they're not going to have somebody to fill your job. So, if you're the easiest 1, I think always, if you're like an emergency room doctor, you can't be like, well, I want to do a coverage because, like, when I don't have an emergency room doctor anymore, you know, for me, it was a little easier. Like, I'm just I'm getting ready to retire. Kind of hanging on just barely. So super easy for me to go off and do that. But for some folks and little more high demanding jobs, they actually can't do it because of that. So that kind of stinks. But I mean, that's

Tim Winkler: 00:24:08

the command has to kind of like approve you doing the program. It's not like you just, everybody qualifies to correct.

John Sokol: 00:24:16

Yeah. Yes. The command has to do it. And there's actually a few more rules. I wish I knew them better. Should have taken a look for this because now there's. There's different rules now about like, if you are, I retired as a, uh, as a 05, as a commander, it doesn't matter what it, what it means is the higher, like the ranks you are, the less time they actually give you to do skill bridge. So, instead of doing the 180 days, I think now they'll let you do 3 months of it or whatever. I'm sorry. Uh, maybe it is 3 months, whatever it is, it kind of condenses. So then. You know, you start running into all these problems too with your timing, right? Because it's like, okay, well, my March, March 1st, I'm going to retire. So you back that up 3 months. Now that's, you know, uh, December 1st. And then you start looking at people and how they do quarterly, kind of a lot of the big companies do cohorts. So they're doing like every quarter, every 6 months or however they're doing it. And it's like, well, I literally, you know, if you, if you don't have somebody who has flexibility, then it's like, well, you just can't do it. There's just no way around it. You know, there's no way, there's no way to get into it. So, um, that kind of stinks, but, uh, you know, I mean, I get it from company standpoints and the Navy standpoint too, so. That, uh, I wish that was a little better for the whole process, but yeah, um, yeah, I mean, that's kind of it, I guess. I

Tim Winkler: 00:25:39

personally went out and scouted the, the, the site, the database myself, uh, just to kind of get a feel for it. If I was a user, um, there's, there's definitely a lot of room for improvement from user experience, right? It seems like it's, uh, it's basic enough to where, you know, you can sort and filter, you know, based on some of the criteria you mentioned, Cam. But if you wanted to really go deep into it and maybe it get a little bit more granular based on, you know, ideally, you know, looking into, um, uh, I don't know, a little micro verticals or something, get a little bit more specific into some of the types of roles. Um, I, I didn't find that much of the, of the filters. Um, You know, it's, it's one of those things where, I don't know, I, you know, I, I see a lot of government sites that probably could use quite a bit of polish, uh, to, to, to build up the UX, but at the same token, like it's obviously the program is, is, you know, the foundational piece now it's time to, you know, how do we build on it? Like some of the things you mentioned, like, how do we build more awareness for, you know, to how to navigate, you know, the program or. Uh, you know, maybe here's a short list of, you know, you know, knowing what you've done for us, maybe here's a short list of some of the top areas that that could translate well for you. Um, I kind of alluded to it previously, but the, the, the former founder, Steve Chang was his name. Headlamp was the name of the company. It was kind of like skill bridge as a service. Um, and then they baked in like an AI kind of matchmaking technology based on, you know, you shortlist, you know, kind of the skills that you're familiar with or that you're well versed in, and it's almost like brings top of funnel. The opportunities that could be best suited for you to kind of cut out maybe some of the noise because there's going to be a lot of a lot of companies and roles that really just aren't relevant at all, or, you know, would never be in your short list, but they still are going to be there and you're going to have to just sift through it. Um, so yeah,

Mike Gruen: 00:27:40

I, yeah, I was just thinking like the opposite is also like, so as someone I worked at a company, we had a lot, it was, um, founded by veterans. I loved working there. I know the benefit of getting veterans out. And 1 of the challenges I've had is I'm not a veteran. It's hard for me to, to do that mapping of like, this is what you were doing in the military. And this is how it translates to like. What you can do here. And I'm curious, like, what, what the experience is like, like, for as the, as someone who wants to tap into this, like, what are the options? And, you know, how do I get more involved? Or is it maybe doing that 2nd order thing? Like, I like the idea of like, Hey, these people, you know, You know, we have a whole program and we had people intern at our company and, you know, we've, and now we can help them find a job, not necessarily with us, but beyond our doors. And I'm just curious, sort of like, how would I, if I wanted to get involved in this, like, what would be your recommendations? And I'm curious from both perspectives. Cam, if you want to start,

Cameron Watts: 00:28:44

yeah, yeah, I'll jump in. So, uh, first and foremost, I would say it's like understanding, like, what, so even like John just said, right? Like, oh, no 5, but it doesn't matter, right? It's like understanding what it takes to get there. What the, what the, you know, credentialing the criteria is, and because it just has a different nomenclature. It's all done in the civilian world. It's just got a different title, right? It's a different, You know, wording, different verbiage, however you want to describe it. Um, but like, so, so I was a team leader in, in ranger regiment, right? So like when I look at my resume on paper for the military, it's like, Oh, that's cool, I was a trigger puller and door kicker, right? But then like, what does that mean out here? Right. It's like, well, you know, uh, leadership. I don't know, but it's hard to equate, right? And so, so really, really like starting to understand what those soft skills and hard skills. I don't like that terminology, but, but what those are and, and, you know, for example, it's like situational awareness, right? I think that a lot of us have heightened situational awareness, gives us more intuition, gives us the ability to be more creative and understand different dynamics and cross functional team. But those are things that you don't think about when you're like kind of pigeonhole yourself. Um, so actually having people like you might like jump on and start to like. Think through what we did to get there is going to be more beneficial than us trying to tell you or the D. O. D. trying to tell you because we're kind of stuck in this like mantra of what we've done. Right? And so getting the civilians to help us understand what those skills are because we share the same skills. It's just we did it in the military for a little while. Uh, you know, so, so honestly, like, Mhm. You doing the research and digging deep down in there and trying to figure out how they relate to what you do is, is probably one of the biggest, most valuable, uh, ways to help.

Tim Winkler: 00:30:38

Yeah, I, I was looking at some of the data points too. Uh, cam on, you guys have a, a, you know, not to, not to, uh, continue to tout zero eyes here, but I'd say it's from like a, a poster boy of like how it's done. Well, you guys have a dedicated skill bridge landing page, right? And within that. Yeah, I kind of pulled the quote from one of the co founders, right? So immediately I go there. I'm a transitioning service member. I feel a level of connection there. Uh, and I kind of understand why the program was stood up. Um, and then beyond that, there's, there's data points immediately that kind of show, um, that you rattled one off 2022, uh, you know, veterans converted, you know, into, into the program. Um, And then one of the stat that jumped off the page to me was that 87 percent of the interns converted to full time hires. Right. Because I think that's the other big piece here. It's like, it's a great to get the experience and it's great to get the, the sampling of this role here or this role there. But the reality is the reality is you want to kind of get it right the first time if you can, right. And you want to find a good fit. And so, um, There's a good case study here where, uh, you know, some of the things that worked well with this 87 percent conversion stat, you know, I'd love to see how it, how it compares to, you know, some other organizations that are on, uh, on the program. And, and, you know, why did this, why was it so high for you all compared to maybe. Something that's lower for, uh, steel, maybe, you know, maybe still didn't have that conversion stat that you all had. Um, was it because, you know, you guys are veteran owned and you have this ability to relay a little bit better or what was it? You know, I think those are things that would be interesting to dissect and try to figure out how to get that conversion rate as high as it can be.

Cameron Watts: 00:32:35

So I'm so glad you brought that up because one of the other, you know, pieces of data that, that I think is very valuable to understand that, that how we do it with skill bridges, we're looking for future employees, not interns. So, so we're, we're immediately trying to say who qualifies to somebody that fits us. Who, who comes in here and is going to add value to our team and who can we add value to? Um, and again, you know, we're looking at this is that, hey, the internship is you to get your feet wet and then you're going to come full time, right? That's that's kind of the idea that we have when we look at this. I don't know that that's done across the board and I don't want to talk about any other organizations, but, you know, I think that is, is being the forefront of how we do candidates is thinking. Are they going to be? Future employees is, is amazing. And I think that's how

Mike Gruen: 00:33:23

internships should be. And an internship should be an extended job interview. It is a, Hey, we want to take this opportunity. Like I've done internships with, in various places for various reasons, whether it's with schools or with maybe, um, in areas that need help or, you know, whatever it is, um, but it's an extended job interview. It's a, we're going to take a chance. We're going to put, we're, we're willing to take a little bit of risk here. And we're offsetting, we're mitigating that risk by it's an internship. Um, but the goal here is at the end of it, there's some defined things. And like, if things go well, it's a full time job. And if things, maybe if it's not a perfect fit, like you got some skills at it, we've got some, we got something out of it and we're more than happy to help like you and your future endeavors, and that's the way I look at internships and, um, I hope that's the way most companies look at internships. I'm sure that's not the case, but it would be my, my ideal.

Cameron Watts: 00:34:20

Yeah. And one more thing too, that, uh, just to kind of piggyback on something John said earlier was like, it's just as valuable, if not more valuable to learn what you don't want to do. As much as it is what you do want to do. And for me, it was very quickly like, figure out what I don't want to do fast, so I can get to what I do want to do, and do it for longer. Right? And, uh, But the second retention rate piece that I'll say about ZeroEyes that I think is, is, You know, I'll tell us a little bit, but it's a vibe, right? Like, like our mantra, our motto is, you know, save time, save lives. You all feel it. We feel it when we work there. Um, you know, it's a heavy thing that we as a country feel. Um, so, so we feel the purpose there and then kind of the vibe and the culture of like, just get it done and help the teammates, right? Like that you feel it and you're used to it. So I think that really helps us get kind of over that first bar of, uh, You know, people who may want to leave.

Mike Gruen: 00:35:19

Yeah. And John, I'm curious from your perspective, like when you were looking, were you able to see, I don't know what, what companies are in, you know, are on scale bridge, but are you able to get some sense of like, is there a lot of companies that sort of have more of that vibe that have that more mission driven, like there's a definite, like, I loved when I worked, um, at Red Owl where there was a, it was military founded and we had mission and we had that, like, it was just like, and you can tell like from day one when I interviewed and. Like, I don't know if you can. As you're going through and trying to do the transition, are you, uh, as you're looking, are you able to see any of that? Or is it like just big company after big company after big company? You don't really know what the, what the cultural vibe is going to be like.

John Sokol: 00:36:02

Yeah, so when I, uh, when I first started looking, just went to that website, started doing a bunch of just kind of. You know, cold email on or whatever you want to call it. And, uh, tell you, you know, it's a lot of toes to make a print, so to speak. So there's a lot of that on there and it's not really well defined on the site that says, you know, this is what we're looking for. Is that or this? It was more like, uh, it's a listing of the companies, then you contact the company, then you kind of learn whatever the positions are that are available within the company. And so, but as far as like a vibe goes, I was the same thing. So not the vibe, uh, steel is bad in any way. I mean, it's a company and kind of the cams point earlier, you know, like a lot of things are very similar and it's just, you know, military members just don't understand it, right. Cause it was like so many different times people would come up to me like, Oh my gosh, this must be so like shocking for you that you're in here. I'm like, well, I mean, it's an office building with pupils. I've been to one before and. You know, people are using acronyms, but it's all, it's the same. You just have to learn the new acronyms, learn the new little, you know, fancy things that people say when they're, you know, trying to end conversations or whatever it is, you know? So it's, I don't think the transition from that standpoint is too bad, but I was in the same boat too. So the company I work at. What I learned at Steele, I think, was that I did want a little more of that, like, um, I wouldn't say military kind of vibe, but what our company does, they, they like to kind of tell it as like a ready room and a ready room for if you're not familiar. So, think of an aircraft carrier, think of when there's like a bunch of people in flight suits and they're all kind of together and they're joking around. You'll see it like in Top Gun, like, when they're all in a room and they're all just kind of goofing around and stuff. So, something like that. Where it's a little, you know, it's formal and obviously there's a lot of risk and everything else involved, but it's also that kind of camaraderie and stuff. So once I did the steel thing, I was like, man, I actually kind of do like that stuff. No, it's funny because. In my head, as I was about to transition out, I was like, man, I don't want to do that anymore. I just want a clean break from everything of like that nature. I never want to, like, by the way, my call sign is face. I was like, if no one ever calls me face again in my life, I was like, that's totally fine with me. And then all of a sudden I did the steel thing and now I'm right back. Everyone calls me face. I like I'm back because I do this Navy stuff now. So still use the call sign, but, uh, You know, and again, you, you learn, I guess I do like that and I do appreciate it and that's something that I care about for my job. So, you know, it all worked out. I mean, sometimes you have to do

Mike Gruen: 00:38:35

something else to realize that like, and I mean, I had that same, very similar experience. I did a very short stint at a very large company. Was there less than 90 days and was like, yeah, this isn't what I said. This isn't what I thought it would be. I don't know why I thought I'd be happy here. All my friends are like, yeah, I didn't think you'd be happy there. And, uh, very quickly transitioned back into the world of startups.

Tim Winkler: 00:38:58

I mean, just to kind of paint the picture of, of what the. The site looks like, and I'll, and I'll rattle it off. I'll put it in the show notes. So folks are aware of skillbridge. osd. mil, M I L, but you know, as a, as a seeker, a job seeker, there's industries that you can sift through the, the location, right? So it's got, you know, all sorts of locations in here, delivery methods, basically in person online or hybrid, the duration of training. So zero to one 80 days, one to six months, one to 30. Services. So, you know, you can, I guess, dial down by air force, army, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, Navy, um, and then a list of every company, which there's 5, 000, just about 5, 000 of them in here, right? So this isn't like going to LinkedIn and give me the, you know, the platter of filters where I can go and find my company size and headcount and revenue and stuff like that. Right. So it's, it's quite vanilla from a. A user experience perspective, which is why I'd say go into this with a grain of salt. If you really want to kind of like take it to the next level, what I would do is pair it with a tool like LinkedIn. And then between those two, you can start to get a little bit more granular of who the company is, right? Cause really what you're doing is prospecting companies and trying to figure out more about them, knowing that they're a part of the, of the program. But, um, I think that's, that's probably, you know, something I would highlight that could definitely use a revamp. The other piece of this, which I think. You touched on it, John, and you did probably too as Cam is. You know, the, the level of counseling that's involved with the transition for service members beyond just, you know, Hey, here's skill bridge. It's available to you. Here's the site here, fill this one pager out. Um, you know, is there room for improvement in that part where it's more of like, almost like one on one counseling, the same way I would expect a student graduating from a university, which I've also heard quite poor things about, you know, in terms of really, truly. Being involved as a, as a transition, as a bridge to a career, um, is, are those areas that you would see as, as areas for improvement or, uh, I, I don't know what the current lay of the land is, but just curious.

John Sokol: 00:41:18

Yeah. I mean, from my perspective, yeah, they definitely, you know, could do a better job of that. The funny thing I always think though, is that. You know, the military, they have a ton of great programs and there's a ton of these things out there and there's counseling services and there's all these different things and they're all available to everyone. It's just funny that you never hear about them. And so, you know, to me, especially, you know, kind of looking back and thinking like, boy, wouldn't it be nice if you kind of use that to get people to join the military is like, we can also help you when you transition out of the military. It could be one of those selling points to actually get more, you know, during especially times, I guess, when recruiting is getting a little soft. That, you know, that we can help you on the back end too. And they never do that. They never mentioned it. It's like this, you know, then you learn that there's all these organizations. And plus, I guess, uh, you know, there is organizations like there's one called hiring our heroes, or I believe it's hiring our heroes. I believe is the name of it. And it's a, um, it basically kind of. Is 1, it helps you to filter out, figure out what you want to do, get your resume together, all that kind of stuff, then take it down to, uh, you know, maybe get you some job opportunities with. Uh, scale bridge, or just I think they can do just regular, you know, get you a job. So, those places exist again, it's just it's hard to find them and it's. It's really kind of word of mouth kind of stuff, which thinks that, you know, there's not a formalized process or something.

Mike Gruen: 00:42:40

I chuckled a little bit because, uh, when I, before the episode, I was doing a search and, uh, Hire Our Heroes has better SEO than, uh, the DoD, because, uh, they come up first. Uh, when, if you, if you search for, uh, SkillBridge, somebody's doing something right over there.

Tim Winkler: 00:42:58

Yeah, we did. We did an episode. Go ahead, Cam.

Cameron Watts: 00:43:02

So I was just gonna say, like, John hit the nail on the head, right? There's a ton of stuff that the military does do that's out there, but you don't hear about it. And then when you go look for it, like, at least when I got out, it was kind of hard to figure out what to do next. You can be like, oh, cool, this is available. But what do I do? And, uh, and, and that got really hard. So they're giving that like, and then pairing with like a LinkedIn and skill bridge is a hundred percent the way to go. So what skill bridge didn't exist when I got out. And so I'm like, my wife made me a LinkedIn with my DD two 14. I was like, all right, good luck, Tim. And like, I was going back to school. So the first thing I did was like, start reaching out to people that I, that had careers that were similar to mine in industries that I thought were appealing. And I would just like hit them up on LinkedIn and be like, Hey, can we get coffee or do you have 20 minutes to chat? And that helped me start to like, kind of maneuver a little bit through all the stuff that was coming and, uh, and start to kind of hone in on some certain areas with, with, with that. But I would probably. Interview this, uh, the job placer rather than, you know, be waiting to be interviewed as a seeker looking. What I know now is I would get on skill, brave, say, Oh, this company looks cool. And then I'd hit them up and be like, Hey, tell me about it before applying to them. Right. We are military is, is such a a, a big group of, of, uh, that's currently coming out right now too. And the talent that I have in this digital transformation era is, is tremendous. Um, you know, it's just different. And so being able to, to understand that it's just navigating different waters, but it's the same thing. It's there. You, you hold, hold your destiny in your hand, man. You reach out to those companies and you're going to get picked up.

Tim Winkler: 00:44:55

Yeah, it's, it's a, uh, I think what's exciting to me is that there's a ton of opportunity to expand on the program. Um, you know, on, on, on our community platform here on the, on the podcast as well, you know, we do a lot of episodes around, you know, this, this transformation of commercial technology, you know, married to, you know, government tech, right. And, and, uh, a bigger push for that, how it's, how it's being done, how it's trying to be expedited, um, where, you know, in years past, maybe it was always looked at as, you know, any sort of opportunity. That's government related is archaic. And I don't want a part of that. I think that's changed that that narrative is changing as well as the ability to, to break in. So that kind of bleeds into this conversation of, uh, you know, skill bridge with, you know, there's so many skill sets that, um, have this ability to translate over, you know, Uh, I would say maybe even more so in the last 10 years than they have, uh, ever before, just given the fact that industry is changing and technology is, is transforming, uh, all these other areas, right? So, so some of these skill sets, when we say, uh, work for a mission driven company, right, that's. That's something that, you know, means something very specific to a, uh, a military service member versus maybe just working for a company that's got this vision, um, and I think that's what kind of stuck with me on that quote from the, from the co founder at Zero Eyes is that, you know, that's one of the things that these, you know, uh, service members bring to the table is like this mission focus and, you know, How well that translates to, you know, organizations that are, that are building technologies that are, you know, mission focused as well. Um, just a random note too. I was podcast this morning that was. Almost dialing in on a little bit of this theme of what we're talking about. Uh, but it was more focused on universities and universities are similarly, uh, kind of having to revisit their model. Uh, because the reality is, um, I think the, the percentage of students that actually pursue a career. And the degree that they pursue is, is, is quite low. Um, and so you spend all this time in an educational program, you spend all this money towards something that you don't even really pursue, you do something different. So, uh, I think they, they called out Northeastern university as one of these Uh, universities that provide more of this co op slash experiential learning program throughout the course of university where you're, yeah, you're, you're attending, um, you know, your courses, but they're also baking in actual, you know, real life world experiences where you're in a corporate setting. I think there's a lot of room for that, not just in, you know, universities, but you know, how that could also be translated to folks that are, you know, in the military or active duty. But maybe wanting to also step foot, you know, one day every month or so into a, a corporate setting to kind of get a feel for that. So it's maybe not as much of a culture shock as it might be, you know, at the end of your, your service, um, you know, just jumping in. But, um, all that said, I guess that's, we kind of put a bow on it at that point, unless there's anything else that you want, you guys wanted to add before we close out with our final segment. I'm

Cameron Watts: 00:48:25

good.

Tim Winkler: 00:48:26

Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, let's transition. Then, um, we're going to, we're going to jump into this, uh, last segment called the five second scramble. Uh, Mike and I are going to ask each of you a series of questions. Give us a, try to give us your response within five seconds, a little bit of rapid fire Q and a some business, some fun, uh, Mike, why don't you lead us off with John and then I'll get to cam.

Mike Gruen: 00:48:50

Sounds good. And cam don't bother taking too many notes because they're going to be a different set of questions. There'll be some overlap, but not too much. Anyway, um, so yeah, so John, uh, here we go. Uh, explain to circle to me like I was a five year old,

John Sokol: 00:49:05

uh, two circle. It's the bylines, basically tactical, technical, what we do think of somebody who operates a piece of equipment in our case, an airplane, we are, our goal. And our job is basically to make that person the best person they can be. And that could be through training. That could be through software. That could be through. Uh, you know, updated equipment, anything like that, and we will talk with, you know, the folks that can acquire that, you know, either training equipment. Software, whatever it is, and get it into the hands of the actual operators. So that's what we do. And, uh, think of it just, uh, it's. I almost think it's easier to use this kind of analogy. There's two ways you can basically kind of train to use an airplane, right? I can either train to fix an airplane or train to operate an airplane. We don't do much on the training to fix airplanes. We do more of the operating the airplanes. So that's our focus is on that side and making them the most kind of lethal they can be in an airplane.

Mike Gruen: 00:50:06

Uh, what's your favorite company value?

John Sokol: 00:50:12

Ours

Mike Gruen: 00:50:12

for two circles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

John Sokol: 00:50:16

Uh, integrity.

Mike Gruen: 00:50:19

It's a good one. Uh, it came up actually recently on a different context, uh, where that it's like the number one quality you look for in a new hire, like during interviews is integrity. And yet nobody really asked that specifically. So it's a, it's a great one. Um, it's hard to sort of get at during an interview process. Um, but it's something that most hiring managers are looking for in the back of their head. Um, so what type of, um, now that you nailed it, um, just give me some breathing room too. Um, what's the, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given? That's going to take more than five seconds.

John Sokol: 00:50:55

Uh, best piece of

Mike Gruen: 00:50:58

advice,

John Sokol: 00:51:00

honestly, uh, enjoy what you do, as long as you're enjoying what you do. And I think for me, enjoying what I do doesn't necessarily have to correspond to the exact like project where I'm working on, but if you're around good people, you're You know, enjoying spending time with them. You're doing something together. Everyone's kind of positive to me. That's, you know, that's enjoying what I do.

Mike Gruen: 00:51:25

Awesome. Uh, what type of person thrives at two circle?

John Sokol: 00:51:30

Well, mostly I retired naval aviators. That's probably your big one. So that's going to be tricky. That's a barrier to entry. That's a, uh, honestly what it is, uh, it's their big thing is being a, they call it a Spartan, but it's, uh, we're all kind of self sufficient with most, almost everyone works remote. So their big thing is. You know, they hire a lot of more senior people and with more senior people becomes kind of the idea, especially when you're in the military, that people are going to kind of do a lot of stuff for you. Like, hey, I need to go fly to California for work. And there's a person who does that for me, and it's like, now, no, there isn't a person who does that for you. So, I know they're, they're always real concern when they get, uh, you know, when there's interviews and stuff like that of like, hey, are you going to be able to, you know, kind of thrive on your own without like a support staff. So, that, uh, kind of just. Mindset of getting stuff done yourself is pretty important to,

Mike Gruen: 00:52:23

um, in one word or two, what's the biggest challenge your company's facing right now?

John Sokol: 00:52:30

Expansion, uh, purposeful expansion, I guess would probably be even more to the point in that, uh, and this kind of goes back to the ready room, uh, kind of mentality that what they have where, and again, maybe to put another piece of that ready room thing is in a ready room. It's pretty loose. Everyone kind of jokes around. It's a beauty. Of kind of thick skin, like a lot of military kind of organizations, right? There's a lot of just, you know, there's just a lot of stuff going on as far as, you know, people calling you out, you know, hey, you did good here. You didn't do good there. You just have to you develop a thick skin for that. So, um, kind of having that culture, right? But then once you start expanding more and more and you keep that culture the same, and that's been it's truly is a struggle and it's. Yeah. You know, and they go back and forth and people go back and forth because you talk about it. It's like, okay, well, if you expand at some point, our biggest problem, right? In a company, when I jokingly say, you know, you hire people to basically serve 20 years as naval aviators. We, that pool of human beings is just small. There's just not a lot of talent out there. Once you kind of go past those walls of that's our talent pool. Now you're bringing in other people. They don't maybe know that culture and then how do you kind of maintain it? So that's, uh, yeah, that's what I would say. The biggest obstacle.

Mike Gruen: 00:53:49

Uh, I appreciate, um, what was your dream job as a kid?

John Sokol: 00:53:58

Uh, first dream job would be garbageman. So that, uh, you know, it's pretty, uh, pretty easy. I, uh, you know, just watch them and actually, uh, no biggie here. Don't like to toot my own horn, but around, uh, it's probably like four or five actually got to pull the lever down that smashes the back of the. You know, that's pretty cool. Into the actual thing. Yeah, it was pretty cool. And so that's cool. I took my kids to a truck

Mike Gruen: 00:54:23

touch where they got to do that. It was awesome. I really loved it. Um, uh, what's the largest land animal you think you could take in a street fight? No weapons, just you and their land animal. Being a land animal,

Cameron Watts: 00:54:38

okay.

Mike Gruen: 00:54:38

Yeah, because people would say whale and that doesn't count. Like, I'm talking like something that you could, you know, that would fight on, on land. I

John Sokol: 00:54:45

mean, I guess, uh, like I'd have to, uh, call that for, are they saying they could take a whale, like, in a fight? Well, if it's on land, it'll just die, right? I mean No, you're saying, no, I just have to wait on the whale. I got it, I have to wait the whale out. Got it. I guess that goes vice versa, if you take a, you know, lion in the water or something. Uh, I don't think I've taken a I mean, I'm, I don't think I can go any bigger than a dog. Right. And probably a domesticated dog at that. Like, not like a lot.

Mike Gruen: 00:55:15

Sounds good. Um, what's something you hate to do, but are really good at,

John Sokol: 00:55:24

uh, I'm trying to think of stuff around my house that my wife's always making me do. Um, sure. There's a lot of those. I'll tell you what painting. I hate painting, but

Mike Gruen: 00:55:36

I'm good at, uh, what's a charity or corporate philanthropy that's near and dear to you.

John Sokol: 00:55:43

Uh, there's a thing called Fisher house. So with just think of, you know, around McDonald houses for hospitals where families can stay there, you know, their child or whatever's in the hospital. So, Fisher house basically does the same thing, but for VA hospitals. So, um, it's just an incredible organization. So. They haven't, they haven't near a lot of, like, the bigger VA hospitals and it's. Uh, my wife, her father, he was a Vietnam vet. A bunch of stuff, but, uh, he was in the hospital for quite a while. And my wife and my mother in law and my daughter, actually, when she was born, stayed there off and on. It was in like I said, I'm in Norfolk. That was Richmond, which is about an hour and a half or so drive from here. And they would stay there and it's. Just phenomenal. I mean, the place itself, actually, it's a really nice house. They, uh, you know, they provide everything almost for you. There's other folks there kind of support staff kind of thing. It's, it's incredible. Uh, and as a charity, it's like one of those ones with super low admin fees and all that kind of stuff, you know, they don't take anything off tops, tons of donations, stuff like that. So just a really, really great organization.

Mike Gruen: 00:56:52

Right. Um, and last one, uh, what's a movie you can rewatch again and again, and never get sick of?

John Sokol: 00:56:59

I mean, there's a bunch, I'm trying to think of the last one. I try to convince my daughter's, uh, 13, she'll be 14 next month. So I've been trying to get her to watch a lot of good movies and by good movies, you know, movies that I like, obviously. Uh, I can watch, I can watch you land her over and over. And, uh, I can also tell you that she's quasi hates it. I wouldn't say she totally hated it, but, uh, she pretty much hates it. And. You know, that's one of those ways. And then that's the most disappointing thing, right? Like you sit there with your daughter and like, I look over and I have a huge smile on my face and she's just like flipping through her cell phone. I'm like, Oh, well, this is like, you've dashed all my hopes for, you know, for you to have an awesome sense of humor. So, yeah,

Mike Gruen: 00:57:46

awesome. Well,

Tim Winkler: 00:57:46

well done. Thank you. Awesome. Yeah. Love Zoolander. Uh, Cam, you ready? All right. Uh, describe zero eyes to me as if I were a five year old.

Cameron Watts: 00:58:01

A weapons detection company that plans to save lives by saving time for first responders.

Tim Winkler: 00:58:09

How would you describe the culture at Zero Eyes? D. V. I. What kind of technologist thrives at Zero Eyes?

Cameron Watts: 00:58:20

Curious, um, constantly curious, uh, go getter. You got to be able to go after, uh, things and, and take initiative, do it and, and stay curious. If you think you've got to figure it out, you're, you're way behind.

Tim Winkler: 00:58:34

What kind of tech roles are you all hiring for?

Cameron Watts: 00:58:37

Uh, engineering, product, project management, install team across the board.

Tim Winkler: 00:58:46

I put it in your investor hat on, uh, what's one of the most valuable pieces of advice that you would give to a founder that's looking to start a business in 2024, 2025.

Cameron Watts: 00:58:58

Always go into the room thinking about what you don't know, instead of thinking about what you do. What's your favorite app on your phone? Oh, uh, currently it's the Tridot app. It's a workout program. Cause I'm doing an Ironman in October, but other than that, I would say either the Libby app, uh, which is the library, uh, app that you can put audio books on or podcasts.

Tim Winkler: 00:59:28

What's a charity or corporate philanthropy that's near and dear to you? Uh,

Cameron Watts: 00:59:33

Bean

Tim Winkler: 00:59:33

Can,

Cameron Watts: 00:59:34

uh, for bladder cancer. Um, my wife is a, is a multiple time bladder cancer survivor. So, uh, Bean Can.

Tim Winkler: 00:59:42

Cool. And we'll put both of those in, uh, in the show notes to raise some additional awareness. Um, If you could have dinner with any celebrity, past or present, who would it be with?

Cameron Watts: 00:59:55

Ooh, Larry David.

Tim Winkler: 01:00:00

Big Seinfeld guy?

Cameron Watts: 01:00:02

Yes, I am an anchor.

Tim Winkler: 01:00:05

Yeah. And curve. What is the worst fashion trend that you've ever followed? Socks with slides, That's, that's social suicide, man.

Cameron Watts: 01:00:20

Yeah.

Tim Winkler: 01:00:21

Um, I,

Cameron Watts: 01:00:21

I, I work remote, so I get away with it a lot more than I, I I still do it frequently. Right. It, it's, are you, are you

Tim Winkler: 01:00:27

a crock guy or are you just through slides like, uh, Adidas sliders.

Cameron Watts: 01:00:32

Um, I, I have tried to go away with the slides, but it's just so convenient. And, uh, you know,

Tim Winkler: 01:00:37

um, last, last one. What is one thing that's on your bucket list that you haven't checked off yet?

Cameron Watts: 01:00:50

Uh, so I want to do the U S open the Ryder cup and, uh, the open, but I have done the masters and the PGA. Um, so I want, I want to round out in the player. So I want to round out the four majors plus the writer and, uh, I want to do them all at, at, at, uh, historic courses too. So that's awesome. Well, a little

Tim Winkler: 01:01:13

humble brag there with the masters. I know that's like everybody's bucket list. That's a golf band. So

Cameron Watts: 01:01:18

Yeah, it is something that everybody needs to do too. It is so different than MTV.

Tim Winkler: 01:01:24

Awesome. All right. Well, that's a wrap. I wanted to thank you guys for a great discussion, uh, and your insights. Uh, I think that's just all super valuable to the next wave of service members that are going to be transitioning into, into civilian world. Um, to our listeners. Thanks for tuning in. Uh, I hope today's episode inspires you to think more about how you might be able to hire a service member for your business. Uh, and, uh, thank you both for joining us on the pod.

Cameron Watts: 01:01:54

Absolutely. Pleasure to be here.