Driving Change: Tackling Military Spouse Unemployment Through Innovation | The Pair Program Ep40

Tim Winkler: 00:00:05

Welcome to The Pair Program from hatchpad, the podcast that gives you a front row seat to candid conversations with tech leaders from the startup world. I'm your host, Tim Winkler, the creator of hatchpad, and I'm your other host, Mike Gruen. Join us each episode as we bring together two guests to dissect topics at the intersection of technology, startups, and career growth. Hey everyone, welcome back to The Pair Program. Uh, Tim Winkler here with Mike Gruen joining me as usual, Mike. So big week, uh, for DC sports and generally curious on your thoughts on this. I was listening to like one of six, seven. The fan, like our local radio station here and, um, just kind of interviewing folks on like their thoughts on, on the, the, the move of the, the caps wizard, uh, arena going to Alexandria. What, where do you stand on it? What are your thoughts? Uh,

Mike Gruen: 00:01:04

so as you know, not a caps fan, uh, but, uh, I don't know. It's, it's a bummer to see. I don't know. I think that it's, it's a bummer to see them move even further out of the city. Like, especially for the wizards who started in Baltimore. It was the Baltimore bullets. There's the Baltimore Washington bullets, then the Washington bullets and the Washington wizards. It's like, they're just moving further and further away. Um, so I don't know. It's, it's, I would like to see them stay in DC. It's, um, It's a lot easier for me and games like, do you go to games, you know, occasionally, I mean, I've gotten to, yes, I've gotten to, uh, mostly Rangers caps games, uh, at cap one and it's not in, I mean, it's, it's a little inconvenient, but not nearly as bad as like Alexandria, once you're talking Virginia, now it's like super inconvenient, I'm much more, you know, I do feel more tied to Baltimore sports than DC sports, but, um, it's just makes it that much less likely that I'll go to a caps game. Yeah.

Tim Winkler: 00:02:01

Yeah, I'm, I'm bummed about it too. I think it's a, you know, I don't go into DC too, too often, but usually for sporting events, um, when I do. And for me, just my, my quick two cents on this for folks that aren't from like this area, like the DMV area. I always pick up on a little bit of this underlying, I want to call it like a hatred. That's a, that's an aggressive word, but between Maryland and Virginia, there's always been a little bit of this. I see it as one more little added fuel to the fire of, of Maryland, you know, not really, uh, uh, being too eye to eye on Virginia. And one more reason why you're not going to cross that state line. Yes. I don't know. I, I

Mike Gruen: 00:02:44

D C sports, it's already not inside of Maryland. Yeah, it's, it's going to be a hike for you now,

Tim Winkler: 00:02:50

Margaret, you're in Baltimore. Do you, do you make it into DC for like, uh, any sports games at Capitol one?

Liza Rodewald: 00:02:56

So I have gone, I haven't gone to a sporting event. I've gone to several concerts there. So that's probably when I make my way into DC.

Margaret Falzon: 00:03:05

Yeah,

Liza Rodewald: 00:03:06

I do. I'm a big fan of the 8 mark train which only takes 47 minutes. So I try to get down there at least once a month for a day or two.

Tim Winkler: 00:03:16

Yeah, I mean, we'll see what happens. I know it's, um, it's not solidified yet as of today, but, um, I know that it's a big blueprint plans that Ted Leonsis has in the, in the Virginia governor. But, um, I, uh, let's, let's jump into, uh, uh, we're going to talk about today, today's episode. So as, Somebody who has had, you know, several close family members and friends, uh, that serve serving the military. Um, I'm, I'm pretty excited to tackle today's topic on the pod. Uh, we're going to be discussing military spouse unemployment. Um, a topic that I know, um, personally, I'm, I'm not very well educated on, uh, so I'm looking forward to learning more and, you know, I'm confident this will be something that will resonate for many of our listeners who, uh, served or active duty, uh, maybe have a spouse that's. military or folks that just value our military and our national security. So, uh, the episode, what we're going to talk about, we'll break down how military spouse unemployment affects national security. Uh, we'll hear some, some stats on military spouse unemployment, learn how one of our guests, uh, is building the tech company to help solve these issues and the role that investors and communities are taking for future solutions for military spouse unemployment. Uh, so on that note, I'd like to welcome our two guests today. We have Liza Rodwald. We'll Uh, military spouse herself, uh, Liza is the founder and CEO of instant teams, a remote team marketplace, connecting companies to military spouse talent, uh, and market foul zone, uh, COO at squadra ventures, uh, VC that works with startups in the cyber and national security space, uh, and squadra is an investor in an instant team. So. Uh, thank you both for joining us today.

Liza Rodewald: 00:04:59

Glad to be here. Yes.

Tim Winkler: 00:05:01

Awesome. So before we, uh, dive into the, the heavy material, we're going to kick it off with our favorite segment, pair me up, uh, Mike, you kick us off, uh, go ahead and, uh, lead us off. Was

Mike Gruen: 00:05:17

so, yeah, so, um, Uh, my pairing, uh, yesterday I did a round trip, uh, to New York city on the train. Uh, so it's three hours up, three hours back. Um, so it gives me plenty of time to, uh, sit and listen to a good book. And so that's my pairing this time. It's, it's just a long train ride and a good book. Um, it was a very, uh, the book itself is just, um, It's very captivating. Uh, interesting. It's about, uh, Russia and trolls. And, uh, actually, uh, someone who I, the, the author is someone who I had met a long time ago. Um, Jessica Aro, who is a Finnish journalist. And so it was just kind of cool to hear her story again about what's happening. And especially with the elections coming up, it's just a very timely how Russia influences, uh, voting in all parts of the world and other things, how they influence Influence politics around the world. So what's the name of the book? Uh, the name of the book is, uh, Putin's trolls. Uh, interesting. You can get it on Amazon. Strongly recommend it. Really good read. Um, so yeah,

Tim Winkler: 00:06:19

I thought you were going to go with, um, I was on a long train ride. I had a lot of time to think about my pairing and that's not what

Mike Gruen: 00:06:28

I thought of this pairing this morning when I woke up. So,

Tim Winkler: 00:06:33

Uh, you, you just kind of, you know, drop the, you, you ride the train, uh, you, you get down, what do you do on your train ride in take, take a nap, uh, read a book, anything specific.

Liza Rodewald: 00:06:42

I catch up on email if I'm being really honest, I love the uninterrupted train or airplane work time. So, I, I'm a, I'm a laptop out as soon as I get in there, type, type.

Tim Winkler: 00:06:54

Yeah. Yeah, love a good train ride too. We're actually in the holidays exploring uh like doing something with the family as like a little uh like a Polar Express style uh experience with uh with the family but. Um, very different experience for you, Mike. That was sounds like a little bit more work related. Uh, cool. All right. I'm gonna jump in. Um, so for me, I'm gonna once again, kind of bring a pairing back to what's going on in my current family life, uh, with my dad. My daughter, Alice, is officially turning one year old, uh, this week. And she actually did two days ago. Um, but, uh, we're going to be celebrating it this weekend. Um, and so I'm going to go with a one year birthdays and smash cakes. Um, so we're hosting a party for her. Uh, we're going with an Alice in Wonderland, uh, theme. Uh, my wife is, is pulling out all the stops for this party with. Everything from, you know, decorations to different games for the kids, um, and to, of course, the, the highlight for any first birthday for those that are listening, that her parents can probably agree at the time where you get to witness your child smash their face into a very delicious oversized portion of cake. Um, for the very first time and I'm looking forward to it. My wife is, uh, she's a dietitian and therefore like always kind of has like a watchful eye on me anytime I'm trying to sneak sweets to, to Alice, uh, when she's not looking. But, uh, so this'll, this'll be a true, like, you know, her opportunity to get full face plant into this and funfetti cake. Um, so I'm looking forward to it. So that'll be it. I'll go with a one year birthdays and smash cakes. Um, Liza, Margaret, you all have children. Have, has this been a part of your experience with, with the one year birthday?

Liza Rodewald: 00:08:46

Yeah. So smash cakes for sure. Usually there's, they go one of two ways. They love it. They eat it. They inhale it. They're scared of it or it gets all in their eyes and they start crying. So just be prepared for, you know, a little bit of chaos or a non event and they don't want to touch it. Yeah. Yeah. Like a very

Tim Winkler: 00:09:05

disappointing, uh, build up and then, oh, that's, it's not, not their style.

Margaret Falzon: 00:09:09

Yeah,

Tim Winkler: 00:09:10

we're excited. Um, I'll, I'll circle back with pictures, uh, after the fact. Um, all right, let's, uh, let's pass it over to our guest, uh, Liza, how about a quick intro from yourself and your parent?

Liza Rodewald: 00:09:23

Sure. So I'm Liza Renewald, like you mentioned the CEO co founder of instant teams. And, um, I've really been focusing on relationships lately and making sure that I have solid things outside of just being an entrepreneur, which seems all consuming most times. And so my pairing. That I picked was, um, close friends and coffee. I love a good cup of coffee and having really deep, meaningful relationships is really important to me. So there's nothing better than a good conversation and a good cup of coffee in my book.

Tim Winkler: 00:09:55

Well said. So when you get together with your friends, do you talk about work or do you not talk about work? Do you, do you intentionally like try to not talk about work when you're hanging with your friends?

Liza Rodewald: 00:10:05

I intentionally try not to talk about work, but usually everyone's super curious, like what's going on. So I try to divert conversation back to just like normal life stuff so that I can have, you know, just those kind of connections. So, but most of my close friends know that know me well, know that. And so. Don't have a problem with talking about just random things, anything else.

Tim Winkler: 00:10:28

Good stuff. And what's your go to kind of order from the barista?

Liza Rodewald: 00:10:32

So I'm a cold brew fan. So I drink cold brew with heavy cream, two pumps of sugar free vanilla. That that's my, that's my

Tim Winkler: 00:10:42

rocket fuel. Cold brew is so potent.

Liza Rodewald: 00:10:45

It is. It is. It's I, I didn't realize that when I started drinking it, uh, that it had a higher content of caffeine and efficient caffeine consumption wise. Yeah, it's good for you. You know,

Mike Gruen: 00:11:00

the entrepreneurs drink of choice, cold brew. We had to tap at the last company I was at. It was pretty good. We had a nitro cold brew in the office that, uh, smart was

Liza Rodewald: 00:11:09

many people were. Going to it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gruen: 00:11:14

I made sure to only get one in the morning and like, I didn't want to get com, but yeah, it was, I was amazed at the people that were going at four o'clock. I was like, are really, this is what you're getting at four o'clock in the afternoon. Well, exactly.

Tim Winkler: 00:11:30

Yeah. Alright. Great Pairing. Yeah. Coffee and getting together with friends. I, I, I dig that. Margaret, how about yourself? Quick intro and, and your pairing.

Liza Rodewald: 00:11:38

Yeah, I'm Margaret Falzon. I'm the COO at Squadron Ventures. So we invest in early stage dual use technologies that are advancing America's critical edge. Um, I am, I guess, amongst a great group of well read friends here, since all of us have talked about a book so far into the first few minutes of this. So, which goes along with my pairing. So my pairing is physical books, and my AirPods, because yeah. I really enjoy listening to the music that's associated with a book at the same time that I'm reading it. So this year I took on reading rock and roll biographies. Um, and so all of these books, not surprisingly, I guess, many people were then referencing other bands or things that they went on tour with. So then I sort of stumbled into a whole new set of music that I really enjoy, sort of by way of the stories of artists that I appreciate. That's awesome.

Tim Winkler: 00:12:32

That's cool. It kind of reminds me of, uh, On the last episode we just recorded, we were just thinking through, um, you know, movies or series that have like maybe taken place in like the eighties or seventies that then bring to light a song or an artist that then goes viral because it was like, I, I think through, um, it was Linda, Linda Ronstadt. Um, and, uh, Oh, no, no, last of us, Linda Ronstadt and last of us from HBO and, you know, just been hooked on Linda Ronstadt ever since. But thinking about how the connection between like a book on tape or, or a series brings to light a

Liza Rodewald: 00:13:15

lot of people have made playlists that go along with books that are popular. So they aren't even necessarily related to the, the, to the. To the store or they're like associated with the story. Yeah. So I'm reading visit from the goon squad right now also, which has a great Spotify playlist associated with it. That's cool.

Tim Winkler: 00:13:33

Taking some notes and checking it out. Awesome. Good stuff. All right. Um, good, good round of, uh, of pairings. We're going to transition and, uh, jump into the, the heart of the discussion at this point. So kind of how I envisioned the conversation flowing. I'd like to maybe just begin with, with Liza and having you introduce the significance of military spouse unemployment. You know, some of the, some of the strain that it can have on families, its impact on national security. And then from there, we can expand a little bit more on instant teams and, um, the part that squadron is playing in all of this as well. So, um, why don't we, why don't we kick it off with that? And, um, you know, Liza, just educating us a little bit more about, you know, this importance of, of military spouse unemployment.

Liza Rodewald: 00:14:21

I know you mentioned at the beginning that I'm a military spouse, so that is how I ended up in this world. And I was much like everyone else on the call that did not, or on the podcast today, that did not really understand anything about the military spouse face or experience. I was already a professional, um, software background and running a software company when I personally became a military spouse. And, uh, when I first moved into our first neighborhood, every spouse would say, How are you working from home? Like, how are you maintaining career? And I'm just thinking, you know, what is this problem? Like, what, what is going on here? There's all these really highly educated people. So just for, um, that's purposes. So everyone can kind of understand there are 1. 1 million active duty spouses. And over 12 million active duty and veteran spouses in the ecosystem, so large population, um, 37 percent of them hold bachelor's degrees, 38 percent of them hold master's degrees and above, and they sit at 21 percent unemployment, which is an astounding number compared to, um, even at the height of COVID wasn't even touching. 21%. And that's due to the lifestyle of the frequent moves that they are doing. So getting established in a career, climbing a corporate ladder, doing all of those things is very hard whenever they're having to move so often. When I personally became a military spouse, I moved six times in seven years. So had I not had, you know, the remote ability that I already had and, or my entrepreneur mindset to create things. Like climbing a corporate ladder or even getting a job six times in seven years would have been virtually impossible.

Tim Winkler: 00:16:08

What's the average kind of uh tenure I guess between moves for Uh, most military members,

Liza Rodewald: 00:16:16

the average is every two to three years. So it's faster for some longer for others, but the overall average is two to three years.

Tim Winkler: 00:16:26

And so, you know, this was obviously pre pandemic when, you know, the, maybe the remote working philosophy was, was really not, uh, you know, as, as a parent or, you know, it's a, it's a very different time now. But, you know, pre pandemic, I'd imagine, you know, the idea of opportunities fully remote seemed just very, very, you know, not, not realistic. Is that been, you know, your experience for the most part?

Liza Rodewald: 00:16:52

Yeah, I think I've been in tech my whole career. So obviously they're very early adopters of the remote work You know, they were calling telework a long time ago was happening in that space But I do think other industries that have been more traditional are catching on to speeding up to that health care government those types of Financial services where it's been mostly in person are now kind of embracing that remote work But what we're seeing in stats from post COVID, it's still not having an effect on the military spouse unemployment numbers. They're still staying at the same levels, if not higher than they were before.

Tim Winkler: 00:17:31

So you, you ended up building instant teams. Um, was this a scratching your own itch kind of a scenario or tell me a little bit about that story. And then we'll expand on, on what you, you guys are doing to kind of help solve some of these problems. Thanks.

Liza Rodewald: 00:17:46

Sure. So like I mentioned before, when we moved into our first area that was mostly military, every single spouse was asking me because I ran a remote software company, like how I was making it.

Margaret Falzon: 00:17:56

And

Liza Rodewald: 00:17:56

so after hearing it so many times, I was mentoring other spouses. I was having coffee with them and teaching them maybe how to consult or create their own company and do different things. And I had had this idea for the hiring platform from a technology side when I was running my software company. And then when I came over to the military spouse side and after my husband and I got married and I saw this community, I thought, I think I can put these two things together. I can solve a real business problem. Problem, but I can give those opportunities and plug in an entire untapped community into this application and really create something special. And so that's how the idea was born and how we started to iterate on, you know, how do we solve a real business problem, but with the military spouse community and create some synergy there, um, to two people groups that really don't know each other exist.

Tim Winkler: 00:18:53

And just some quick hits on, on instant teams. And then we'll kind of talk about how this partnership kind of came to be with Squadra. Um, what year was the company founded? And I guess, um, you know, where, where is it sit currently from a headcount perspective? I always love to hear a little bit more about, you know, from the tech side of things, you know, um, how you, you invested into like getting the teams built. Is it, uh, you know, large engineering infrastructure, product teams, um, a little bit, a little bit more of expanding on that would be great.

Liza Rodewald: 00:19:21

Sure. So we founded instant teams in 2016. So that's when we started iterating. Um, we've been through several iterations of technology, but what we built on that side to really amplify what we're doing is a skills based hiring platform. So you can imagine if you see a military spouse resume and it goes to, uh, corporate America and an applicant tracking system, their resume will automatically get kicked out because they've had, they'll be labeled inconsistent. Um,

Tim Winkler: 00:19:47

Job happy or something.

Liza Rodewald: 00:19:49

Yeah, exactly. 100%. And so we engineered our platform to do skills based 1st, so to build in the assessment so that they have, uh, democratizes access to the job opportunities that we're plugging them in to the companies that they work with. So that's from the tech side kind of what we've spent the years engineering and iterating on and also being able to reach the community in a unique way. So military spouse community is very tight knit. It's very word of mouth. There's a lot of trust. So we've spent a lot of time, um, building trust in the community as military spouses ourselves, and building technology that reaches the community and gives them resources for upskilling, finding job opportunities, connecting with each other, um, doing things like that in order to foster the community in that way, but also to lead them to, you know, successful careers and path to careers. Both remote and some in person,

Mike Gruen: 00:20:45

I was gonna say on the in person side by having the platform that's obviously targeting people who move around a lot. I imagine that also gives you the that sort of lets you focus on that side as well for companies. They're like, yeah, no, we can totally like for us. It's not a problem if you're going to move around or for it's either remote work or whatever. I imagine that there's also some benefit on that side of it. Is that the case?

Liza Rodewald: 00:21:06

Yes, absolutely. So we work with companies in in both ways. We work with companies in a pure outsourced environment, so we take away the hassle of the military spouse having to move around and being in different states and locations. So we can put them on our payroll. We can worry about the logistics and the company and just worry about having them perform the tasks and. Functions needed. And then we have the direct hire capacity too. So if they want to hire the spouse on and we encourage that, which is really different from a talent marketplace form. We don't hold them on our side. If a company wants to hire them, we let them go because that's just a career progression for a spouse and a win. A win win for everybody on that side. That's

Mike Gruen: 00:21:43

awesome.

Tim Winkler: 00:21:45

So I see this is like a, a, a two sided marketplace, right? So you have the, uh, the talent, the military spouses, um, that are creating profiles and, um, you know, updating their, their skills. How are you going about, um, attracting employers to create profiles on there? And, um, I'm always intrigued, you know, We run a community site hatchpad, right? So we, we, we do a lot of community building, uh, for technologists looking for a career growth within a startup ecosystem. Um, uh, as far as adding value for, uh, the startups that are showcasing who they are, like we're a little bit more of a deeper dive into who their culture is. But a lot of that was pure like outreach from us letting them know, Hey, this is what we're building. How are you, um, driving, uh, awareness to employers that, Hey, look, this is a problem. Uh, we're trying to solve it. Here's a group of, you know, skilled, talented individuals, uh, you know, tap into the pool. How are you, how are you engaging them and getting more companies to sign up?

Liza Rodewald: 00:22:50

So traditionally we've done a lot of just outbound, so our outbound is pretty effective because it's mission oriented, um, but you do have to lead with the business problem you're solving. Right. So one of the things that we have doubled down on is customer experience. Right. And so, uh, when we do our outbound, we talk about the unique lived experiences of military spouses and how they make excellent customer support for your company to support your customers, right? They can create those connections, those relationships really fast because that's what they do on a day to day basis. And so taking that messaging, putting that in outbound. Obviously networking and relationships. So I do a lot of selling as the founder. Um, so, and, and I built an investment network like Quadra and other investors that are around that leverage their relationships to give us intros to companies, and there's a lot of just support overall in the mission. So, you know, a lot of veterans are in leadership positions at these companies, so where we can reach out to the veteran and say, Hey, this is what we're doing, this is our mission. Can you make an intro, uh, across the, uh, Board to the buyer of, you know, our products and services. And so we get a lot of buy in from that side as well.

Tim Winkler: 00:24:03

Just, I've got a lot of questions about the platform, but I still want to get to Margaret as well. But the, um, I

Liza Rodewald: 00:24:10

love hearing about it. This is, this is why we invested. Well, it's

Tim Winkler: 00:24:14

also like recruiting is something that, you know, Mike knows a lot about as an engineering leader, building teams. And, you know, we, you know, help a lot of. Teams scale out as well in early stages, particularly, but, um, you know, within the military, right, the different branches of the military, is there, um, do you have like almost like filters where folks can, you know, Hey, like I'm an army that, and I'd love to engage with somebody who's, you know, a military spouse of a, an army, uh, member, or is it, is it not that granular? Or I just know like from a recruiting perspective, right. You always think about what's our common ground, what might really. Get me to connect with this individual that might lead to a better opportunity of me working alongside them. Is that something that you dial into the platform or how granular does it get from skills and then overarching profile?

Liza Rodewald: 00:25:03

So you can see military affiliation. So we do capture that. Of course, it's voluntarily given by the military member. Um, I have not seen anyone hire someone though, specifically like army to army, army to Navy, right? They're just kind of, uh, all in the family approaches, um, to most of that. But we do have like badges and designations for each of the military affiliations in the system that our customers can, can see and know exactly. And then we have, um, our e interviews where they'll do an introduction and say, you know, I'm Liza Rodewald. I'm a, Army spouse, I've been, you know, moved six times in seven years. And these are my skill sets and how I can help you as a company.

Mike Gruen: 00:25:44

Fascinating. So I do want to hear from, I want to hear how Squadra got involved and from Margaret and stuff, but I also probably can guess because I used to work for Guy Filippelli, who, uh, is behind Squadra. So, um, so I know, uh, this is probably very close to him, but yeah, I would love to hear like, How Squadro got involved and what your role is and, um, yeah, sure. And, uh, what's your time? Let's let's focus on your

Liza Rodewald: 00:26:13

coffee. Um, so I, so just to give a little like a slide in here of. How did, how did I get involved? How did Squadron get involved? So, um, prior to working with Guy, I was a co founder of a venture backed data analytics company. I sort of had, as a co founder, had went through every job in the book, sales, marketing, BD. In my last role, I was, uh, I managed our engineering team and did a lot of work leading our product roadmap. Um, through our sort of journey as a company, we actually got into the government and dual use space. And began, we were one of the early challenge winners of the app works program in 2018. And so that's how I got sort of insight into the, the government side, the dual use technology side, and got really interested in how to technologies, if, if, if the opportunity with technologies to make this like really meaningful impact on deciding on how you want to see the future that you want to live in unfold. Um, that became really personal and interesting to me, getting on, getting involved with, um, I never thought I would be in the venture capital space. I am so glad that I am because I get to work with amazing entrepreneur, continue working with amazing entrepreneurs like Liza and Erica. Um, but the other thing is you get to put your time and efforts behind things that you believe are going to make a really huge change. Um, and I think with the, with Squadra, that's really been the thing that set, um, set everything that we've done to date in motion. So the first Um, guy, you know, sort of came together to start this fund in 2019. Um, many of the companies that we invested in from our first fund, including Instant Teams, are, have, um, military spouses or military, former military or intelligence community connected people in leadership positions. Um, at the companies or as most, most of our founding team members actually have a military connection. Um, and we really have this sort of philosophy around, uh, squadron is the Italian word for team. Um, and so we're, we make investment decisions based on the team and the leadership capacity that we see in these entrepreneurs and the, and the early, you know, sort of those one to five first people that they've. Brought around them to start the company. And so to jump back to coffee and conversations with Liza, my fourth day on the job as squadra was the day that squadra invested in instant team. So we had around coffee sat down to say, okay, we're making this investment. What are the big things that we want to achieve over the next, um, the next 24 to 36 months and really map that out into kind of what eventually would become something that we now call our joint strategic plan. Um, and I think just to say a couple things on that and Liza, I, uh, it's always fun to remember this because it's this, uh, we're in this, the four year moment, right? It's almost coming to be our fourth anniversary together here. Wow. But the, uh, sort of this idea behind when we, you know, with, I know you shared earlier, sort of your connection to military spouses. Well, my family is military. My dad was in the military. My older brother was in, um, Afghanistan for many years. So sort of have that connection, but not the personal experience of it. But I, but being able to see the tremendous opportunity that military spouses, um, as Um, sort of all the values that are embedded within being, um, uh, loyal, resilient, impossibly hardworking, uh, totally impervious to dealing with change. They can handle it. Anything that comes with them. Um, it was really the seeing this as lies in Erica's ability to see this, the military spouse, unemployment or underemployment, not as a problem to solve, but as a huge, uh, really as a resource to deploy. And how do we do that? And so we took a very much a crawl, walk, run approach to developing sort of how the business would evolve and and get from, you know. One to one or two remote team members deployed in a company to how do we get from get that to 10? How do we get to that to be 100 team members? Um, supporting, supporting different initiatives at a larger company, a huge at a fortune 1000 company. Um, and so that's, there's so much, there's so much more to say about the team and the business, but that's, that's sort of the origin story from here.

Tim Winkler: 00:30:48

What, what's really fascinating about this, um, call it an industry is, uh, you know, so, you know, in recruiting too, we see a lot of this with kind of stay at home moms, um, would that have so much drive and hunger to, to tackle some work, but, you know, oftentimes aren't given the opportunity because. They're, they're, you know, also stay at home taking care of a, a child. Um, but the reality is there's a lot of time available for them to really press towards, you know, uh, some sort of work. Um, and so I, I've employed, um, number of stay at home moms and virtual basis that have been extreme top performers, um, have shown just, just this level of like ambition and. And really wanting to attack something. Uh, when you talk about the key skills that, uh, you would say like highlight, I think Margaret, you mentioned a couple of them, but Liza, what are, what are some of these skills and attributes that you kind of see as some, some themes, uh, across military spouses?

Liza Rodewald: 00:31:50

Sure. Well, I think I mentioned one of them earlier on that unique lived experiences. So when I built sales team internal to instant teams, I had obviously military spouses. And every time I'd get on a sales call with them, they were able to connect to the customer in ways that you just wouldn't believe, like they've either lived somewhere, they've known somebody there, they have some connection with just about everyone you can put them in front of, just because they have these unique, you know, lifestyles that are more transient, and so they just have all these experiences. The other thing that's really unique about the military spouse experience is when we get moved to a new place. The service member immediately has a built in network. They have what they're supposed to do, who they're supposed to show up, they have support. But the spouse is just thrown into it. There's no point of contact for you. So you figure out the schools, you figure out the doctors, you figure out the housing. Um, the military spouses, um, make most of the financial decisions in the family. There's data that supports that. And so they're really the ones doing all the research, doing all the logistics. That's it. Um, making the plans, making sure the family is taken care of. And so all of that multitasking, um, all of that makes just really great. Like they don't need a lot of instruction, right? You can just dump them in and say, okay, figure this out. And most companies moving fast, especially, you know, startups and. Middle market companies that are growing quickly, like those are the types of people they need. They need people who then don't need a lot of handholding, are highly empathetic, um, to other customers and other team members experiences and can just bring that, um, hard, hard work ethic, but the, the ability to figure things out. And get stuff done, um, is really what makes them stand out and high levels of retention. So this is one thing that, you know, we realize as a company, once a military spouse gets the job opportunity, they want to keep it. It's the one point of stability in a very unstable lifestyle, right? So if they can keep that job with them as they're moving, they're going to stay in that position. They're going to grow with that company because they don't want to have to start over. You have to start everything else in your life over when you move, like if I can just keep something consistent, they gravitate towards that. And so our retention levels are really high, which is one of our big value props for working with our customers. So they're operations professionals, they're project managers, they already have all of this expertise just from the everyday life that they're already. That they're already going through a lot

Tim Winkler: 00:34:28

of consult consultants, you know, like it's like a McKenzie Deloitte mold, right? Where you have to bounce from one project to the next and be able to quickly plug and play in and adapt to this new environment or this new problem. And, and, you know, that's a very unique skill set to, to, to have. And make an action plan like

Liza Rodewald: 00:34:46

high initiative is another thing that I would add to that list too.

Mike Gruen: 00:34:50

And that's what I was going to ask about was like, so I imagine that a lot of the people, a lot of the spouses don't recognize the skill sets that they actually have, that they, I have my master's in whatever, and they don't necessarily see how they can take what they've been doing and apply it and really translate that into something that's going to stand out on a resume and the rest of that. Is that, is that kind of the case? Is that what you're seeing?

Liza Rodewald: 00:35:14

Yeah, and it's one of the major reasons we focused on the skills, right? I can assess project management skills, multitasking, high levels of empathy. I can assess all that and present it in a data form to an employer, whereas they may not think of that naturally. They may think, oh, well, I've just volunteered for, you know, the family FRG, right? And what that actually means is they manage 300 families in the communication for that, right? Those are high level project management communication type skills, so we can help kind of translate that so that when employers look at it, they understand the skill sets that they bring. And also just to point out, like military spouses are just civilians, and so they've had jobs. Most of them have, have worked in a corporate or an office environment. So just because they have all these soft skills doesn't mean they also don't have hard skills, right? So they have those as well to pair along with them. Um, so we just kind of pull those things together to really help them understand how to market themselves too and, and stand out because a lot of military spouses are looking for ways of empowerment. And so that's how we come, come about it at Instant Teams, really focused on empowering the military spouse to have their own identity, because that's really what they're craving. Because as a dependent, is what they call us in the military, to a service member, like it's, it's very, your identity is very related to your service member. Like I have to have my husband go with me on post to do certain things, which is like Annoying as a very high functioning professional, you know, but it's part of that positioning, right? And so spouses are looking for a way that they can have their own thing, their own identity, and that's what instant teams and our app 12 million plus, because we have two things that we do for military spouses, the 12 million plus app really exists for that empowerment piece of their identity.

Tim Winkler: 00:37:07

Fascinating. Yeah. The other thing that jumps out to me, just, you know, as somebody that's worked with startups and this, uh, this podcast is, is truly about, you know, talking to a lot of folks that are in tech and startups, um, you know, when you talk about instability and, and, you know, this is like their, their most stable thing that they're, that they're kind of holding onto, but, um, Um, being comfortable and, and stable, unstable environments is, is seems like folks that would adapt well and startup environments, uh, where things are very volatile or just a little up and down here, there, um, you know, kind of comes down to like being comfortable with being uncomfortable in situations like that. So. Um, I'd imagine that your platform you can adjust on, you know, when they're searching for small business startups, you know, company size, things of that nature.

Liza Rodewald: 00:37:53

Yeah. So we do, our company profiles are very extensive, um, so that the military spouses can really get to know the companies that they're applying for and working for. So we put in like. Their D, E, and I initiatives, their mission statements, like we do a lot more than just like the average, like here's the company name and description so that, because it's a two way street, right? Spouses need to want to work for that company and believe in what they're doing as well. And so they both have to both sides kind of have to sell to each other. So I think pulling out those things. Um, and describing, you know, this is a large corporation you're going to work for, or this is a. It's a startup that's going to be, you know, growing and I actually started my career in a startup. I didn't know that's what it was called at the time because I took my first job out of my computer science degree. And uh, now, now looking back, I was like, Oh, that was a startup. There's only 15 people there. So definitely. A new one. But as a developer, I got to touch every single thing. I was the front end. I was the backend. I was the project manager. I was the business analyst, you know, and so I learned so much more. So I encourage spouses to like, if you have an opportunity, take it because you can touch so many things and get so much good experience working with startup.

Tim Winkler: 00:39:05

That's great. And, and coming back to Squadra for a minute. Um, yeah, guy, Philip Ellie, um, you know, he, he, he, he started, uh, Squadra. Is that, is that accurate, Margaret? Yes. Yeah. And, and so, you know, we recently, um, celebrated Veterans Day and, you know, he put up a social post on LinkedIn that I thought was pretty touching, but, um, you know, he's, he also started a foundation with the purpose of helping Vets transition into the professional civilian world. It's actually an episode that we're looking to craft, um, very soon, early in, in 2024. Um, but you know, again, that, in my opinion, you know, these all kind of come back to these. You know, uh, Mitchell mission driven, um, you know, uh, contribute, contributing to a cause, um, socially driven, like, uh, uh, uh, investment thesis is this kind of the theme of the types of companies that you all back or just a little bit, maybe have an overview on, you know, The stages that you all get involved in, um, and you know, you can get as specific as check size. If you'd like, you don't have to, but I'd love to hear a little bit more as well. Like, you know, some other examples of some of these mission driven types of companies.

Liza Rodewald: 00:40:16

Yeah. So I think one comment, I appreciate your comment and I'll share that guy would certainly appreciate your comment on the video he did for veterans day. Um, with his work in the commit foundation, with our work at squadron, with military affiliated founders. Um, and even our work with sort of all of these things are interrelated. We actually have, um, you know, we have more than one company where a early team member or a co founder's spouse has now been part of a commit foundation program or where they have been, um, involved. Or we've had people who, if you're familiar with the skill bridge program, which is a DOD program for. Um, people who are, uh, soon to end their military career to get into, um, you know, the, the private sector and have experience there. So really in that all of these things are connected a lot and that we have a big belief in the power of community and everything that we do at Squadra, um, that's a huge part of why we resource all of these different initiatives and sort of all how this ties together. So just to like bring that back to our investment thesis, while we have a, uh, our focus for our, for our funding is around, um, dual use technology companies that are in the national and cyber security space, um, with, You know, with instant teams, we invested in them four years ago while we were still narrowing in on exactly what that thesis was going to be, knowing that it was around originally around, uh, software as a service businesses that have a big impact on the enterprise, um, with instant teams that also became a big impact on national security because having, um, You know, one of the big reasons why people leave the military is because of the lack of satisfaction, stability and fulfillment of their families. And so by provide, by being an organization that provides really amazing careers to military spouses that, um, and as well that a lot of the different types of roles that. Lizas, Lizas extended teams are instant teams actually work on those. That is a security issue itself. Um, and having great, wonderful jobs for American citizens. Um, so just to get like to the nitty gritty of squadron for a second. So, uh, most of our companies we invest in precede to series a. Um, that doesn't mean that you need to have revenue. Some of our companies are formation where there's no revenue and it's two people with a great idea, leaving, uh, leaving a fortune 500 company ready to get at it. Um, we, we always lead most of our investments are in first time founders. Um, we're very involved in a highly collaborative, supportive way. Um, we spend a lot of time resourcing sort of a couple different initiatives around, um, one, how are we helping our companies put pipeline in their pipeline? So we do a lot of efforts as a team, both on the government side and on the corporate side to help connect our companies. Uh, with opportunities that lead to revenue, we say there's two things that we're helping them do where we are making 100 introductions and we are helping them make their first 100 decisions. Um, and so those are our 2 sort of big stats that we think about for each company that we have the great opportunity to work with. Um, and then the other thing is, we're really focused on investing in in teams, but then also amazing leaders who we can see the capacity to build a great team around them. Both and how they activate the people that work directly for them as well as the network community resources, larger, larger ecosystem that they can build around themselves and activate into their sort of this massive team to get to do all the hard things they're going to have to do as a startup.

Tim Winkler: 00:44:12

Wow. That's great. Is there any geography, like restrictions or across the country? Um,

Liza Rodewald: 00:44:17

we, we invest coast to coast River, Oregon, Connecticut, LA, Texas, all over with instant teams. We get to say almost every state. I think we have a team member from a company in every state. Thanks to teams. That's awesome. For sure. I'll just put a little bit of data to what she said over 40 percent of active duty service members consider leaving the military specifically due to military spouse, unemployment, and the ability for their family to not have dual income. So that's a pretty large number. Um, that's why

Tim Winkler: 00:44:52

it's a national security issue. Yeah.

Liza Rodewald: 00:44:54

Yes. And if that's the number who leave, that means every single family is having that conversation.

Tim Winkler: 00:45:00

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's wild. You know, before we put a bow on this and transition to the final segment, I, you know, Liza just, um, I was curious to hear like any. It doesn't have to be like a robust success story, but maybe like just some quick hits on, you know, some of the, the data that you've seen as success, you know, so what are some of the, you know, some, some of those, uh, feel good stories that instant teams has provided if it's, if it's, you know, hires a month, if it's, you know, one specific scenario, I'd love to hear just a little bit on that.

Liza Rodewald: 00:45:35

Sure. Um, well, I think you asked me like growth size earlier. So Instateams has over 500 employees now, 92 percent of them military affiliated. Um, so, you know, definitely have grown exponentially since the investment with the squadron when we had a very small team at, at that point in time. And from an impact perspective, like we've given over 40 million of payroll directly to military families since we started. Um, Which is really proud for me, um, as a founder to be able to say that we've been able to contribute that and we've given thousands and thousands of military spouses jobs, um, throughout our time. And we're just so Getting started. We're still going, you know, still expanding that, um, that mission and everything on that side. So, um, from a feel good story, like there's, there are so many, um, there is a great video that we did, um, that highlights an employee area. Who started off with us at a very entry level position with a customer and now has worked her way up as our one of our data analysts on our team that is cross functional across the tech and the finance team. And 1 of the things that she says in the video that really was touching to me was, um, you know, having the job and instant teams and the stability she's moved several times since she's had the position enabled her family to put it down payment and purchase their very 1st house. You know, having that dual income really enabled, enabled that action. And so we hear those stories constantly, um, through the military families. Like most families in modern day age need two incomes to be able to survive. And so if you're trying to just survive on one income, it's very hard to do any of the extras for your families, extracurricular activities for the kids, you know, groceries, all of those things. Get profoundly affected when the military spouse is able to be employed. And then one other point I want to make, the transition, we talked about transitioning service, you said you were going to do a podcast on that. There is no better way to support a veteran in transition than for the spouse to be employed and to be able to keep that job. Because instead of jumping straight to whatever opportunity that they have because they need to have income for their family, they have more time to make the decision and to choose. Because veterans that transition tend to take a job and then move quickly to other jobs because they just kind of took the first thing that came available because they're scared, that fear factor. But if we can get the spouse employed before that transition happens, it's a game changer for the rest of that plan.

Tim Winkler: 00:48:05

That's awesome. I didn't even think about that side of the coin, but such a, such a true point gives them a little cushion to, you know, feel comfortable with taking their

Liza Rodewald: 00:48:14

time. And they're going through the same challenge themselves of how do I translate the work that I've done in service to someone who's going to read my resume?

Tim Winkler: 00:48:22

Yeah. We'll probably pick your brain, Margaret, on a good guest to join us for that next upcoming episode. I bet

Liza Rodewald: 00:48:30

you I can, I bet you I can tell you who's

Tim Winkler: 00:48:33

in. Um, awesome. Well, I, this was a, a really great, uh, highlight on a topic that I think, you know, isn't really talked about much. Um, so, I do appreciate you all expanding on it. And I'd love to transition us to this final fun segment. It's called the five second scramble. So it's going to be a quick hit Q and a some business, some personal, not too personal. Don't worry about that. Um, on, uh, uh, on both of your all sides. So we'll have a little bit of fun with this. Um, I'm going to go ahead and, uh, kick things off. with Liza. Um, actually, no, I'm gonna go with Margaret. I'm gonna go with Margaret. I'll start with you, Margaret. Are you, are you ready?

Liza Rodewald: 00:49:13

I'm ready. Let's go.

Tim Winkler: 00:49:14

You said you listened to a few other episodes. So maybe you, maybe you're dialed in, uh, on some of these questions, but, um, What, um, what is your favorite stage of startup to invest in?

Liza Rodewald: 00:49:27

Formation, early stage, less than five

Margaret Falzon: 00:49:30

people.

Tim Winkler: 00:49:31

What is the biggest challenge facing startup founders in 2024?

Liza Rodewald: 00:49:37

There's a lot of bad advice out there and knowing how to, how to filter through the noise to get to the people who really are going to help you and be there is. Uh, an endless puzzle and a very hard challenge for them to face because everyone says they want to help, but a lot of people aren't going to be there.

Tim Winkler: 00:49:55

How would you describe the culture at Squadra?

Liza Rodewald: 00:49:59

We have a ton of fun. I was trying to think about a better way to say that, but we have a lot of fun and we get to do work and stand behind people and beside them in a way that they're Doing extremely meaningful things and there's nothing that's more rewarding than that. So every day, every day is fun. Every day is chaotic and I love it.

Tim Winkler: 00:50:21

Sounds like my days. Um, what, what, uh, what is the first thing that you do when you wake up? Like what's your morning routine?

Margaret Falzon: 00:50:30

Uh, I have

Liza Rodewald: 00:50:32

a lovely cup of coffee before I do anything and I have that in bed so that I can get it caffeinated before I am before I face anything so I can think clearly

Tim Winkler: 00:50:45

a cup of coffee in bed is a special cup of coffee. It doesn't happen too often. So it's nice. It's nice to get that. Aside from your iPhone, what's one tech gadget that you can't live without?

Liza Rodewald: 00:51:00

Oh, I'm unprepared for this one. A tech gadget I can't live without. Um, I, I should have brought it to show you, but I have a tiny analog clock. That only does five minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes and 60 minutes and you turn it and that is my task time manager because I can get really sucked into something that shouldn't take as long as it should. And that helps me regulate my level of effort and attention on things.

Tim Winkler: 00:51:27

That's fascinating. You know, I was actually, that makes me think about, you know, a lot of folks say that they don't use their Alexa. Very often the number one thing I think they use it for is like, Hey, Alexa, set a timer for 10 minutes while they're cooking or something like that. This is

Liza Rodewald: 00:51:42

a little cube. I actually products this for a great stocking stuffer for Christmas, but it's a little cube and it just has these. And I give it, I actually gifted it many times to people. So many of our entrepreneurs, actually. So Liza, it might be coming your way.

Tim Winkler: 00:51:58

I'll be looking. What would you say that you prefer to work at home or in office? Yes.

Liza Rodewald: 00:52:04

I work in the office. I am a child of entrepreneurs and went to the office every day as a kid, so I am made for the office. I am in our office right now, and I'm here five days a week.

Tim Winkler: 00:52:16

I feel like that's something that a lot of 20 something year olds would agree with. They love, they're craving an in office experience. I'm

Liza Rodewald: 00:52:24

an expert if you haven't been able to tell, so I need to be around people.

Tim Winkler: 00:52:29

What's a charity or corporate philanthropy that's near and dear to you?

Liza Rodewald: 00:52:33

So I have been a member of the Junior League of Baltimore for over 10 years now. And so that's a women's leadership development, um, and professional community based organization that does a lot of work, um, connecting many different parts of the city. I'm a Baltimore city resident. Uh, so that's, that's been a big thing for, for me.

Tim Winkler: 00:52:53

Awesome. Yeah. We'll promote that in the show notes. What is your go to dessert?

Liza Rodewald: 00:52:59

I love vanilla, actually anything vanilla. I want the vanilla cream. I went the, uh, the creme brulee. I can't, can't help it. Love a classic vanilla dessert.

Tim Winkler: 00:53:11

What's your favorite, uh, quick stress relief activity?

Liza Rodewald: 00:53:16

I was once upon a time an outdoors instructor, so I have to go outside every day. I go for a walk in the middle of the day for about 15 minutes and that can change my whole outlook, uh, my whole energy level and what's going on.

Tim Winkler: 00:53:32

Uh, we'll end with this one. So what is one thing that's on your bucket list?

Margaret Falzon: 00:53:39

Bucket list. Um. Bucket list item. I, oh, uh,

Liza Rodewald: 00:53:49

I want to write a book, so I'm not sure exactly what the topic is. I have a few science fiction short stories that are half done, but, so I guess it should be, I should finish, finish a long form writing item at some point. So I'd like to write a book. Very cool.

Tim Winkler: 00:54:06

All right. Good stuff. Uh, that was a good rapid fire. Liza, are you ready?

Liza Rodewald: 00:54:12

I'm ready.

Tim Winkler: 00:54:13

All right, let's kick it off with explain Instant teams to me as if I were a five year old.

Margaret Falzon: 00:54:22

Okay.

Liza Rodewald: 00:54:22

Well, if you're a five year old, then instant teams can help give you some money so that you can go buy whatever toy that you want. So you have a job with us. We will pay you money and we will connect you to the company that will pay you that money.

Tim Winkler: 00:54:40

To go buy candy. What is your favorite part about the culture at instant teams?

Liza Rodewald: 00:54:48

I think it's the opportunity. So we've given a lot of spouses opportunities to grow within the company and the organization and to leaderships. And so I think giving those opportunities for growth, if someone's ready to step in, we foster that as a company and I'm really proud of that.

Tim Winkler: 00:55:04

Very cool. What can folks be most excited about for instant teams in 2024?

Liza Rodewald: 00:55:12

So we have a in person location here in North Carolina, which is a coworking space, um, that military spouses can come to for free, which is a new initiative of ours. And we're looking to expand those and other areas. So hopefully we will have another location or two in 2024.

Tim Winkler: 00:55:29

Oh, what part of North Carolina?

Liza Rodewald: 00:55:32

We are south of Raleigh, uh, in the Pinehurst Southern Pines area, right outside Fort Liberty, which is one of the largest military installation.

Tim Winkler: 00:55:40

And one of the largest golf capitals in the country, so for those golfers out there. Uh, what, uh, what would you say yes or no to pineapple on pizza?

Liza Rodewald: 00:55:50

Yes.

Tim Winkler: 00:55:51

Yes.

Liza Rodewald: 00:55:52

I lived in Hawaii for three years. I like pineapple. I'm just about anything.

Tim Winkler: 00:55:57

What's the, um, last series that you binge watched?

Liza Rodewald: 00:56:02

Oh, I don't know if I'm, uh, want to tell you guys that I watched that might give you what kind of

Tim Winkler: 00:56:09

junk TV are you watching? Just let us know.

Liza Rodewald: 00:56:14

Um, I like, if I'm going to watch a show, I actually really like mindless TV. Um, so I've watched a married at first sight, not that long ago. So just things that take absolutely zero brain power to process. Those are the things I binge watch normally. Otherwise, it's very like, uh, bloody things with my husband that he likes to watch.

Tim Winkler: 00:56:36

I have to, a guilty pleasure of like, Love is Blind. My wife and I watched that. I don't know if like the, the Nick Lachey thing. Yeah, very similar. Um, what's a charity or corporate philanthropy that's near and dear to you?

Liza Rodewald: 00:56:50

So I really love Reese across America. Uh, we lay the reset fallen soldiers graves. I'm actually going there Saturday to volunteer and taking my whole family to do that. So that's one organization that I like to support.

Tim Winkler: 00:57:03

Great one. Yeah, we've done that one year. It's super gratifying. Um, what's your favorite productivity hack?

Liza Rodewald: 00:57:12

Productivity hack. I don't know. I don't have a cube like Margaret. I've never had one of those. You're getting one for me. Time management as a productivity hack for me. I think for me, just focus time. I really set intentions for my day and my calendar and I try to block those in advance on things that I need to do. So I put everything in my calendar. So, even if it's not a meeting that way, I make sure like, I have finance Friday. This is the hour block that I'm dedicating to this specific task so that I don't, it doesn't lose track. There's so many things that come at you as an entrepreneur. So the calendar pretty much rules my life, um, in all areas. And then for those that are married to and have families, I also put everything that's child related on my husband's calendar as well. So that I never hear the words you didn't tell me about that. So it's a shared family calendar. Everything's on there so that we can dual pick up, drop off, do all that stuff and coordinate it.

Tim Winkler: 00:58:17

Okay. I'm still in that hack because I think that's genius. What's the worst fashion trend that you've ever followed?

Liza Rodewald: 00:58:24

Oh, gosh. Uh, I was in, uh, high school in the nineties, but probably the, uh, white t shirt with the spaghetti strap top on top of it with the chunky dot Martins. And the. Baby doll skirts, probably, probably was not a great look.

Margaret Falzon: 00:58:45

Oh, all in one look, Liza. Yeah.

Tim Winkler: 00:58:49

We're gonna need pictures.

Liza Rodewald: 00:58:50

Yeah.

Tim Winkler: 00:58:53

Proof of life.

Liza Rodewald: 00:58:53

They went somewhere to die.

Tim Winkler: 00:58:59

Uh, 90s fashion is so good. Um, so, so bad. So good.

Liza Rodewald: 00:59:04

Well, now I watch it on my daughter. I'm like, I wore something very similar. Yeah,

Tim Winkler: 00:59:07

right. It all comes back. Um. All right, last question. So what was your dream job as a kid?

Liza Rodewald: 00:59:15

Um, so I love to sing. So I went to college actually on a vocal scholarship. So I would probably, I, I didn't want to be like Taylor Swift, but I'd love to be her background singer.

Tim Winkler: 00:59:29

So

Liza Rodewald: 00:59:29

if I could ever do that, that's what I'd do.

Tim Winkler: 00:59:32

Taylor's a listener. We'll, we'll make sure that she's aware. See if we can find something.

Liza Rodewald: 00:59:38

Don't make me dance. Cause I don't know. I can stand back on the mic.

Tim Winkler: 00:59:42

Very cool. I love it. Yeah. Musician. Awesome. Uh, that is a wrap. Uh, thank you again, both of you so much for just being fantastic guests and, and building awareness on this. very pressing issue in our, in our country. And so appreciate all the work that both of you all are putting in to help us move forward with a, uh, a better solution to, to the problem. And, uh, thanks for joining us on the podcast.

Liza Rodewald: 01:00:06

Yeah, thanks for having us. It was a lot

undefined: 01:00:09

of fun.