Guardians of the Sky: Disrupting Drone Threats with DefenseTech Startups | The Pair Program Ep35

Welcome to The Pair Program from hatchpad, the podcast that gives you

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a front row seat to candid conversations

with tech leaders from the startup world.

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I'm your host, Tim Winkler,

the creator of hatchpad.

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Mike Gruen: And I'm your other host, Mike

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Tim Winkler: Gruen.

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Join us each episode as we bring

together two guests to dissect topics

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at the intersection of technology,

startups, and career growth.

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Hi everyone, welcome

back to The Pair Program.

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I'm Tim Winkler, I've got

Mike Gruen with me as always.

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Um, Mike, something I heard this

morning, uh, I need to, to get

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your, uh, two cents on, are you

believer in the Loch Ness Monster?

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No.

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Not at all?

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That's a

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Mike Gruen: quick answer.

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I mean, when I, when I was

six or seven, yeah, sure.

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Tim Winkler: But we're, we're missing

out on a, an opportunity because there

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is a, uh, uh, there's a monster hunt

taking place this weekend out in Scotland.

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Oh, really?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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There's a group of folks, uh, heading

out to basically study, uh, to try to

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find, uh, find Loch Ness, uh, again.

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So.

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Um, if you're not, not interested in that,

I, just a good reason to get to the UK.

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Um, just, just say that

you're a believer, right?

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I

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Mike Gruen: mean, I'm interested.

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I'm always fascinated by that stuff and

all of the different, like, you know,

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this folklore around it and not just

Nessie, but whether it's the, you know,

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uh, or Sasquatch, any number of them.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think it's interesting and

fun and fun to think about.

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But, uh, yeah, so maybe I'll, uh,

pull that up and see if, uh, see if

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anybody finds anything interesting

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Tim Winkler: out there.

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Yeah.

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They do these every 50 years, apparently.

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So, um, anyways, I got caught on some

research and, uh, likeness is a very large

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lake, uh, by volume in great Britain.

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It's the second largest lake.

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Um, it's 22 square miles.

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So.

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I was thinking if we were gonna go for a

hunt out there, I would be bringing this

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little, uh, Diddy with me right here.

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. This is, this is, uh, do you have a drone?

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Mike Gruen: I do,

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Matt McCrann: actually.

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Tim Winkler: I think I have the same one.

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Do you DGI mini two?

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Yep.

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Yep, yep.

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Matt McCrann: It's in

the closet right over

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Tim Winkler: there.

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Yes.

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My wife and I, you know, I,

I take it traveling with me.

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Um, love, love, uh, you know, using

it as a way of like, you know,

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catching some interesting aerials

for photos, videos, or just kind

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of like, like surveying the area.

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Um, but I'll segue that into today's

episode because the two guests that

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we have joining us today are both,

um, leaders from startups that.

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They play with drones, but they do it

in a little bit of a different way.

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Um, they're both building technologies to

combat drones, um, which referred to as

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unmanned aerial systems or UAS, uh, and

scenarios when drones are being used as.

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Maybe a threat to people,

uh, militaries or places.

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Um, and so for our listeners, a

preview of today's episode, we're

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going to be discussing the topic

of startups forming strategic

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partnerships to facilitate growth.

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Uh, and there's a lot of different, you

know, motivators out there as to why

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startups and companies will partner.

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Um, I did some, some digging online

on some of the bigger like tech

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partnerships over the last 10 to 20 years.

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I'm going to rattle a few, a

few of those off for us here.

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So there was a big partnership between

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allowed for Uber riders to connect

their Spotify with their driver's cars

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to enjoy a better rider experience.

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Um, a partnership between Square and

Starbucks, uh, enabled customers to

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make payments using Square mobile

app, uh, which obviously offers

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more of a convenient payment option.

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NASA and SpaceX partnered, uh, NASA

provided funding and contracts to SpaceX

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to develop space cargo transportation

to the International Space Station,

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um, and IBM and Twitter, uh, and IBM

partnered with Twitter to incorporate

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Twitter's data into IBM's analytics

services, Watson, their cloud based apps,

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uh, and this combined real time data

with Powerful analytics capabilities.

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Um, so lastly, uh, we had the partnership

of drone shield and Everest, uh, which

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I'm now, I'm sure many of our listeners

have not heard the names of these two

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tech companies, uh, or have any idea of

what kind of the partnership consisted

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of, uh, but you'll learn about it today.

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Um, it's a fascinating

partnership between two companies.

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That are building technologies

that are driving innovations on the

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front lines of safety for, you know,

warfighters and our militaries, um,

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as well as safety and other commercial

applications like in public arenas,

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stadiums, airports, and, and a lot more.

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Uh, and so with all of that, I'd like to

introduce our two guests joining us today.

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We've got Matt McCran, uh, the U.

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S.

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based CEO of Drone Shield.

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Uh, he previously served as its VP of

sales, uh, has held leadership roles at.

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CAMV Technologies, which is

an AI startup, served as an

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intelligence analyst for the U.

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S.

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Navy for a number of years and

is a member of NSA's cryptologic

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direct support element.

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And we have Daniel

Coltrane, the CTO of Epirus.

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He has a background in RF and mixed signal

electronics design, previously held roles

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at Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Broadcom.

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Uh, holds a master's from the

university of Southern California

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and also has 12 patents.

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Uh, guys, thank you both for joining

us today on the pair program.

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Thanks for having me.

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All right.

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Good stuff.

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So I know that intro

leaves a lot of intrigue.

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Everybody's on a cliffhanger right

now, wanting to learn more, but before

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we jump into the heavy stuff, let's

kick things off with our favorite bit.

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Uh, pair me up, Mike.

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This is where you kind of tee

us up and, uh, lead us off

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with, uh, uh, your, your parent.

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Matt McCrann: Yeah, uh,

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Mike Gruen: today, uh, I'm, my pairing,

uh, I was just recently on vacation, uh,

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so it's new places and new people, um,

went out, uh, visited a friend out in

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Montana, um, he had rented a pavilion,

uh, and had a bunch of people in the

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tech community out there, come out

and just had a good time just meeting

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a lot of people and, and just, yeah.

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Getting a feel for all these

different walks of life and

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different, you know, it wasn't just

the tech community that was there.

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He also invited friends and other people

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Matt McCrann: and it was in

a big park and other people

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stopped by and we just sort of

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Mike Gruen: chatted.

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It was, it was great.

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Um, and also just being out

in a totally different part

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of the country is always fun.

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New places, new people.

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Tim Winkler: Yeah, a lot of these

conferences too, they, they take

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place in these remote destinations

of these national parks, like, uh,

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like snowbird and Utah's another big

one, um, like that's actually where

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like agile was, was formed or the

development philosophy of agile was,

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was formed out in snowbird, but.

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Definitely a big fan of Montana.

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It sounds like a good time.

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Cool.

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All right.

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I'm going to jump in.

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Um, so, you know, kind of

repping the shirt here.

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Um, um, we're going to go

with girl dads and hair bows.

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Um, so as a girl, dad got a,

uh, eight month old daughter.

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Um, she's blessed with

a good head of hair.

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Um, and I quickly learned that I can't

dress her, uh, in an outfit without

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pairing it with a fresh hair bow.

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Um, that either compliments the color.

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I brought a few here for, for those

on the YouTube channel to check.

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Here, but it's either the color or

the pattern kind of become a hair

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bow connoisseur, a baby fashionista.

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Uh, if any of our listeners are, are

interested in advice on how to best

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accessorize your daughter's outfit, DM me.

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I'm happy to share my knowledge with you.

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Um, I've been training

for this for years now.

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So, uh, that is my pairing.

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I'm going with girl

dads and hair bows are.

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Any of you guys, uh, girl dads,

by chance right here, how's your,

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how's your accessory game, uh,

when, when, when outfitting them.

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Matt McCrann: Yeah, I definitely

understand the, uh, the

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pain of, uh, doing the hair.

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Um, my, my youngest daughter keeps

her hair about waist, uh, length.

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So, so it's a project.

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Dan Kultran: Yeah.

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You know, mine is 15 now, so I think

my fashion is a little out of style.

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Tim Winkler: Well, good stuff.

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Um, I'm going to, I'm going

to kick it your all's way.

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Uh, and, uh, I'll start with you, Matt.

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Why don't you give us a quick

intro and tell us your pairing?

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Matt McCrann: Yeah, sure.

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So as you mentioned, uh, Matt McCran,

I'm the U S CEO of drone shield.

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Um, been in the role for about

four years with the company.

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Now, uh, we'll get into some of the

cool things that we're doing and some

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of the partnership act, uh, activities

with, with companies like Everest here.

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Um, but my pairing today, uh, is actually

inspired, um, by my, my youngest daughter.

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Um, so I'm going to go with

peanut butter and gummy worms.

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Um, Which was news to me.

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I never heard of this pairing

before a couple of days ago.

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Um, I was thinking about, you know,

coming on the podcast here and this, this

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question, um, and kind of taking it in a

personal way where it's, you know, early

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mornings and reading, which I like to do,

or in a technology way where it's like

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kinetic and non kinetic defense systems,

which we might talk about later today.

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Uh, until, uh, my daughter threw me a

curve ball and asked me the question

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of which would you rather eat?

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And she said, a peanut butter

and gummy worm sandwich,

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which I stopped right there.

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Not, not a big, uh, gummy

worm or gummy bear guy.

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Um.

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But she said, you have to pick

one, so peanut butter and gummy

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worms or a tuna fish sandwich with

marshmallows and barbecue sauce.

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So, the other option, I, you

know, uh, conceded and took the

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peanut butter and gummy worms.

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And, uh, I guess, uh, the main

takeaway there is, you know,

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a good pairing is very, uh,

relative to what your options are.

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. So

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Tim Winkler: Love it.

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Yeah.

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,

Dan Kultran: good takeaway.

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Tim Winkler: She's got a, a, a

hell of a creative mind on her.

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Matt McCrann: Yeah, she does a lot

of reading, so I think she pulls.

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Ideas from here and here put together

and that's how you end up with a gummy

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worm and a peanut butter sandwich.

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Tim Winkler: I'm pretty sure I might

be dabbling in that after this.

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My mind's spinning.

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I'm fairly intrigued.

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Um, I remember as a kid, the, um.

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Was it like the dirt dessert that

had like the gummy worms in there

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and it was like Oreos and pudding?

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Yeah, that's a dessert.

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I guess that's a little different, but

at least, at least the peanut butter is

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a little sweeter versus like tuna fish.

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You kind of lost me immediately when

you, when you threw in marshmallows.

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Good, good, good pairing.

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I dig that.

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Dan, how about yourself?

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A quick intro in your pairing.

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Yeah,

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Dan Kultran: sure.

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Dan Coltrane, CTO of Epirus.

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Um, I've been with the

company for about 4 years now.

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Um, and as you said, I've been at

multiple defense and commercial companies

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here, and we'll get into the kind

of things that we do here at Epirus.

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But for my pairing today.

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Um, kind of what you let in

with the nature thing and then a

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little bit of a family thing like

Matt is mountains and fresh air.

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Okay.

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Um, it's something I really miss

this year because typically every

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year we would go camping, um, either

at the beach or in the mountains,

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Yosemite and so on and so forth.

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Sequoia, but, um, this year, you know,

with all the things that are happening

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with the company, we're so busy with work.

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So on and so forth.

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And my kids are a little more grown.

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So they're teenagers now, um, they're

play a lot of sports, volleyball,

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baseball, you name it, right?

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It was just so busy.

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So many tournaments that you go to,

we didn't get a chance to unwind

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together as a family, you know?

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Um, and I really miss that.

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Uh, not only that we're busy when we go

to the mountains, for example, we get to

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disconnect, you know, with our devices,

because oftentimes you kind of force,

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you know, if I have my phone there,

there's no signal up in the mountains.

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So it's kind of nice to be

able to disconnect and and

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reflect on all the things that.

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You've been working on for the first

half of the year and then really come

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back to the second half of the year,

really renewed and have a sense of, you

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know, kind of organization in your mind.

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Because I know my mind is kind

of like going everywhere, you

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know, all the time, right?

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With all the things that are going on.

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So, and, uh, yeah, that's something

I really missed this year.

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And I, I hope we make a really

concerted effort next year to go.

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To the mountains and

disconnect a little bit.

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Tim Winkler: Yeah, that's a great pairing.

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Um, yeah, I, I'm pulling a

couple of things from that.

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Like, uh, just getting away and kind of

like pressing the reset button as well.

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Like I'm the same way.

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Like I, I feel like sometimes I get caught

in this hamster wheel where if I don't

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step away and, and you know, unplug and.

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Um, getting into nature and just kind of

like isolating, uh, it's tough to come

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back with like a creative mind or yeah,

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Dan Kultran: yeah, absolutely

get into what we call it.

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Do you just do just do like thinking

strategically and be able to like parse

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things out and maybe not do certain

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Tim Winkler: things, you know, right?

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So, so, so what was the, um, One of

your favorite parks that you mentioned

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that you go hiking to was at Sequoia.

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Dan Kultran: We go to

Yosemite National Park a lot.

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We used to go maybe almost every

year, but somewhere around right

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in that area, central California.

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Yeah, this year

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Tim Winkler: we didn't get a chance to go.

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Yeah.

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The fresh air is another, another one too.

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It's been tough to, uh, you know,

with a lot of the wildfires that,

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that, that have been hitting as well.

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It's, it's been, uh, it's pretty kind

of eyeopening on the East coast anyways.

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Maybe a little bit more

common on the west Coast.

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But with the, the wildfires in Canada,

like you, you really appreciate

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having some, some fresh, clean air,

uh, getting out about Yeah, for sure.

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Dan Kultran: Around the world,

right around the world, like East

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and Italy and all those places

all have wildfires this year.

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Yeah.

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Tim Winkler: Well, good stuff.

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Well, I, I dig the, uh, dig

the pairings all around.

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Um, let's, uh, let's transition into

the, the heart of the discussion here.

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So, as I mentioned, we're going to be

talking about a broader topic of forming

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strategic partnerships as a means to.

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Drive innovation and fuel growth

for, for startups, um, specifically

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kind of hearing about some use cases

for interesting technologies that

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combine like hardware and software.

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Um, quite frankly, though, half of the

intrigue, uh, in this episode, for me

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at least, is, um, just learning about

some really interesting technology

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that's being built, uh, by both of our

guests and their, and their companies.

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Um, I'll tease it with a brief

descriptor from one of the products

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from Epirus called the Leonidas

Directed Energy System, which I was

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sharing with, with Mike, uh, this

morning and he, he said, it sounds like

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a euphemism for Star Wars blasters.

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Uh, so, um, it is seriously

some fascinating tech that

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we're going to learn about.

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So let's, let's jump into it.

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Um, why don't we start the conversation

by having both of you all provide us with.

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Just more of a, an overview

of your company and the

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problems that you're solving.

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And then we can jump into more specifics

on how the partnership came about.

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But Matt, why don't we kick off

with you and start with telling us

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a little bit more about DroneShield.

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Yeah, so

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Matt McCrann: DroneShield

is a counter UAS company.

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Um, we are basically responsible or

the technology we developed is geared

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towards detecting, identifying,

Tracking and then when necessary

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defeating adversarial drones.

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So drones like what we see on the

battlefields over in Ukraine, drones

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that we see domestically here, too, that

are involved in smuggling operations or

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pose a threat to critical infrastructure.

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Um, there's really without having

a counter UAS and a multi layered

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counter UAS solution in place.

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Um, people, critical infrastructure

assets, um, are really soft targets.

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There's no means to defend the

air over their, their space or

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their, their area of operation.

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Um, so that's where we step in.

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We provide situational awareness,

so tools that can tell them

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what's in their airspace.

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And then can also help or

accelerate the threat assessment.

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Do you have to be concerned

about what's in your airspace?

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And then this way they can

move to a response posture if

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there is indeed a real threat.

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Yeah, it's a

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Tim Winkler: fascinating space.

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It sounds like it's moving very quickly.

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Uh, a lot of developments

happening, you know, drones,

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anybody can purchase a drone, right?

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And so when you think about that,

it does spark a little fear.

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Uh, when you think about, you know,

somebody has some twisted idea, you

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know, and, and, uh, what, what it could.

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Harm it could, it could cause and then

thinking about how to take one down.

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Um, I was, I was watching one of your

all's explainer videos and I think it

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was from, from you all, but there's,

there's options out there that, you know,

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people are just still experimenting with,

but one of them being birds of prey,

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which was wild, which is like sending.

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Hawks or eagles out to legit take

these, take these things down.

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But, um, obviously that's a

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Matt McCrann: comment on that.

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I mean, it's, it's effective,

but it doesn't scale, right?

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Yeah.

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So we're trying to apply technology so

we can scale a solution because like

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you said, drones are so accessible

now for good and bad purposes.

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So we focus on countering the bad.

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Tim Winkler: Yeah, I, I, I can't wait

to, to peel that back a little bit more.

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But, uh, Dan, why don't we, uh,

pass it to you and, and give us a

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little bit more context on Epes.

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Yeah, sure.

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Dan Kultran: Thanks.

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Um, well, Epes is a high

growth technology company.

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Uh, we develop cutting edge dual

use technology for both defense

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and commercial applications.

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And as you already said, our

flagship product, Leitis.

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Uh, we believe it is the most effective

and the most efficient high power

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microwave system in the world today.

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And what we focus on is

counter swarm mission.

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Right?

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So when you're talking about, um,

many, many drones coming at you.

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That's what we focus on, you

know, and, and you can see

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today is very readily available.

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Um, 4th of July just passed.

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Um, and I was at, uh, you know,

my house is near the beach and

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redondo beach has a drone show.

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Hundreds of drones, creating a flag,

all kinds of show that you can do

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and we envision that as that is the

way of the future where, you know,

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many, many drones are coming at you.

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So, really simply put, we're at

Everest, we're turning science

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fiction into fact, into reality.

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Right.

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Um, I always liken our system

to, um, if you have a USS

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Enterprise and Star Trek, right?

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You got the kinetics people shooting

photon torpedoes at things, and you got

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the laser people have the phaser, right?

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That shoots a beam at a target for us with

this shield that, um, not to steal Matt's

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thunder here, because he's a drone shield,

invisible shield around the enterprise.

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That, you know, if you come from multiple

angles, you cannot penetrate our wall.

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So that's kind of like what

we do here, um, at Epirus.

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We do a lot of other things too.

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We do, um, you know, research

projects for advanced technologies

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for DARPA and things like that.

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But today are, we focus a lot

on our effector, Leonites.

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Tim Winkler: What's the, uh,

distance that, you know, this

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shield kind of can like reach to?

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Dan Kultran: Um, I can tell you,

um, or I'll have to kill you

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kind of deal, but it is enough

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Mike Gruen: to say that's the, I

think the answer is it's enough

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Tim Winkler: that might not

be the last time we hear.

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I can't tell you I'm or I'd

have to kill you on this

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Dan Kultran: episode.

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Uh, so it's kind of like the

unfortunate, unfortunate thing

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about a little success that we have.

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Right.

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For sure.

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We have, um, government

customers now, certain things we

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Tim Winkler: just can't say.

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Yeah.

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Well, some of the stuff that's

public knowledge, right.

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Uh, what, what's the, uh, size from a

headcount and I guess funding to kind of

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give, give our listeners a little bit of a

context on the scope and size of you all.

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Uh, Matthew,

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Dan Kultran: you want to

go, you want me to go first?

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No, you can go Dan.

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Yeah, sure.

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Um, EPRS, uh, raised

quite a bit of funding.

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North of 300Million dollars

in 3 rounds up to series C.

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And we're at about 200 people, um, grown

from, you know, I was number 17 at the

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company and now over 200 growth in the

last few years that we've been here.

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Tim Winkler: That's really neat.

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Uh, Matt, how about DroneShield?

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Yeah.

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Matt McCrann: So DroneShield

is, um, a little smaller.

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So we're at about a head

count of 85 globally now.

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Um, and.

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We, uh, we, we've taken in

multiple rounds of investment.

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Our, uh, parent company, DroneShield

Limited, is actually publicly traded,

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um, on the Australian Stock Exchange.

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Um, and we had the, uh, pleasure of having

Epes join our investment, uh, team, um,

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towards the, uh, tail end of last year.

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Making a initial investment in

us, which is really sparked the

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collaborative efforts of our 2 teams.

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So that would be a probably

the origin point of, you

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know, some of the partnership

discussion that we'll have today.

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Tim Winkler: Yeah, it's a good tee up.

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Um, let's, let's kind of start there.

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So, uh, curious to hear about, you know,

this partnership that, that formed,

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uh, you know, Dan, we're fortunate

to have you being, being such an

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early settler at, at Everest, right?

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So you've seen a lot of things, uh, you

know, uh, grow and change over the years.

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But, um, you know, how did this

partnership form with drone shield?

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I'm always curious in terms of, you

know, You know, was there multiple

440

vendors you were looking into and

was it a strategic investment because

441

you, you knew it was going to have

an impact on your own technology.

442

Talk us through a little bit more of

how that all got scouted and kicked off.

443

Dan Kultran: Yeah, sure.

444

I can comment a little bit on that.

445

So 1 of the things that we looked at

was, you know, we cannot do everything

446

well, but we can do 1 thing really well.

447

And as we analyze the

landscape of counter swarms.

448

We see that the gap is in the

effector to begin with, right?

449

So we, knowing that, remember, we never

had 300 million dollars to begin with.

450

We had million, you know, single

digit million and then 2 digit

451

million and then 3 digit millions.

452

Right?

453

So we look at it with the limited

time and resources that we had.

454

We focus on the effector 1st.

455

Okay, making sure that she's, you know,

it's already a hard problem trying to

456

do high power microwave, but little

did we know how hard it is, right?

457

We're talking about tools that

cannot really predict plasma

458

breakdown of our system.

459

We have to learn all those things.

460

So it was wise for us to

focus on the effector first.

461

Okay.

462

So, um, knowing that we really

focus on one thing and be

463

the best at that one thing.

464

So then as the landscape grew, you

know, counter UAS became a thing.

465

You know, there's problems

in Ukraine and whatnot.

466

There's already a lot of really good

companies out there, like DroneShields

467

and the likes that are providing the

eyes and the sensors and the software

468

system that point Leonidas in the right

direction and shoot something down.

469

So, um, I think it was a wise

decision for us to focus on that and

470

then partner with new startups like

DroneShield to really bring forth.

471

The full solution for our warframes,

472

Mike Gruen: I think it's interesting the,

um, on that partnership side, because

473

I've been at any number of startups

and there's always this, like, well,

474

but we might not want, we might want to

get into that business at some point.

475

So we don't really want, like, there's

this, like, front of me type thing.

476

And so it can be really difficult to get

those partnerships going because people

477

feel like, well, if we, if we partner

with them, then that precludes us from

478

maybe doing something in the future.

479

And I think that's just like.

480

Such a terrible.

481

Dan Kultran: Yeah, it's an old mindset.

482

Yeah, exactly.

483

Right?

484

Like I think, I think our mission,

the intersection of our mission and

485

technology today is really at play.

486

It's like, how can we bring forth the

disruption in our defense industry to feel

487

something to our warfighters faster, not

how much more money can we make in the

488

future if we keep this all as a vertical.

489

Matt McCrann: Exactly.

490

Yep, there's a, there's a saying in

our space where there is no silver

491

bullet type solution and there's a

huge focus on interoperability and

492

that's something that both Everest

and drone shield do really well.

493

And that's why it was

a natural partnership.

494

It's.

495

You're best in breed here.

496

We are best in breed here.

497

Our customer, our mutual customer

needs the end to end solution.

498

So let's, let's paint what

it could look like for them.

499

And in fact, take it a

step further and show them.

500

And, and that's, I think the most,

um, that's a fruitful way to start a

501

partnership when you're trying to, uh,

co develop or solve a problem together.

502

With a mutual customer in the

mix and in the room as well.

503

Yeah.

504

And I think what's interesting,

505

Mike Gruen: it's interesting because

you guys are working on like physical

506

security OT, you know, operational

technology and kinetic and stuff

507

that's happening in the real world.

508

Um, in cybersecurity, I see that same,

it's that defense in depth mentality.

509

And it does create, I think

there's much more partnership in

510

Matt McCrann: certain

511

Mike Gruen: industries than in others.

512

And I feel like security in

general, everybody agrees, like

513

in order to really Do this, right.

514

We have to partner.

515

We have to have this interoperability.

516

As you said, there's

not one single solution.

517

It's going to be all of these things

working together and the more we

518

can have them working together,

sort of the better off we all are.

519

So, um, it's cool to see, you

know, that's still still the case

520

Matt McCrann: and happening.

521

Tim Winkler: Did the partnership, uh,

open up new markets for either side,

522

uh, or was it more around, you know, uh,

a mutual customer and, you know, let's

523

start there and then maybe explore.

524

You know, mutually how we can impact

other markets, but I'm always curious

525

because for one, you know, seems like

both of these are dual use technologies.

526

Um, I'm always curious on what

came first, a commercial customer

527

or a government customer.

528

Um, but then also, you

know, that mutual customer.

529

Did it open up doors to new markets

or did you already see, you know,

530

multiple outlets here that made sense

beyond just one, one mutual customer?

531

Matt McCrann: Yeah, I mean, I can comment

from the drone shield side and then Dan,

532

if you, if you want to add to it from

your perspective, um, yeah, so for us.

533

Military first, um, they have the

most mature requirements, uh, and the

534

most pressing need, uh, other markets,

other, other verticals, uh, calling,

535

um, uh, are figuring it out now.

536

Right?

537

Um, they're seeing and putting

together all the information

538

that they might have a problem.

539

And here's what it might look like.

540

Whereas the military, um, U.

541

S.

542

D.

543

O.

544

D.

545

has been at this, um, you know,

546

starting to look at this problem.

547

Yeah.

548

Um, so a little further

along the path there.

549

Um, so that's DroneShield specifically

focuses on, um, military, federal

550

agencies, federal law enforcement.

551

Uh, we do have commercial customers

worldwide and critical infrastructure,

552

uh, that, that are growing, uh, but it

started with our military customer base.

553

And, um, through the partnership with, um,

uh, Everest, even though it's still it's

554

still on the younger side or early stage.

555

Um, we focus there on on some

of the military, but also we're

556

starting to see other things open

up on the homeland security side.

557

Which would probably be the

natural, um, next market, uh, so to

558

speak, for a joint, joint solution

of, uh, from, from both of us.

559

But Dan might have other, other

viewpoints on that and other, you know,

560

uh, strategic, uh, lines of effort.

561

Yeah.

562

Thanks

563

Dan Kultran: Matt.

564

I, I think, um, we're

very much aligned there.

565

Our first customers will be the DOD,

right, in the different services today.

566

We really focus a lot on the army.

567

He's where, you know, they want

to do, uh, for base protection

568

and so on and so forth.

569

Um, but we envision through that

partnership with drone shield,

570

there's international opportunities

that we can have as well.

571

Right?

572

So strategic partnership.

573

On the, um, continental U.

574

S.

575

and also outside of U.

576

S.

577

A.

578

Makes a lot of sense with drone

shield where they're from Australia.

579

Um, now, in terms of having

partnership where we don't just

580

partner with drone shield, right?

581

If you look at online, we have lots of PR

about partnering with other, um, similar.

582

Uh, companies like grown shield, um,

that opens up more opportunities, more

583

inroads into other services as well.

584

Um, and HPM, we feel is

going to be 1 of the layer.

585

Um, mechanism in our protection

of our service people, right?

586

The Navy, the Air Force, the

Army's so calm and so forth.

587

So, absolutely.

588

I think, um, you know, having

partnership opens up the world, um,

589

not just the, the US based customers.

590

Mike Gruen: I'm curious, Dan, did,

which sort of came first, the mutual

591

customer and that's what led you to

DroneShield or did you see DroneShield

592

and like, you guys just created this

partnership and, and you then are like,

593

Oh, we have these mutual customers.

594

I'm like, was it a customer

that brought you guys together?

595

I guess that's my question.

596

I

597

Dan Kultran: think it's the need of

the customers that brought us together.

598

Like Matt said, customers are

looking for a solution, right?

599

They're not looking for a gadget,

like the army, when they buy Leonidas.

600

They, if they don't have a solution

in front of them, they have to go

601

find the solution, work with other

sensors, provider, other radar provider.

602

What we do is by giving them

an easy button that said,

603

Hey, here's your solution.

604

There you go.

605

You know, here's a capability.

606

Here's a solution, and they

can digest that much easier

607

than having this long process.

608

Of the, um, customer being the

integrator of all these systems, right?

609

So that, that speeds up

the acquisition process.

610

Mike Gruen: That's awesome.

611

I, yeah, I think that

that's a great way to do it.

612

Cause I, having been at so many places

where it's the customer that's trying

613

to force these two things together and

it's like, okay, now I guess we'll,

614

we will create a partnership, but

it's all through this third party.

615

It gets more difficult and more

challenging and also building

616

something that's really a solution

for multiple customers, not just.

617

Uh, a spot, you know, this one thing

that solves this one customer's problems.

618

So that's awesome.

619

Tim Winkler: I'm always curious to just,

uh, you know, from, you know, selecting

620

a partner, um, other things that go

into this, excuse me, other things

621

that go into this in terms of like.

622

Alignment of values or goals and vision.

623

Um, did, did that come into play

when, when forming and, and making

624

a final decision, uh, on this

was the right partner for us.

625

Yeah.

626

Matt, do you want

627

Matt McCrann: to, Um, that,

that's a huge part of it.

628

Um, Tim, um, you know, when you,

when you come across a partner that

629

has, um, you know, complimentary

technology and the approach.

630

The, the, uh, company's

philosophy is a match as well.

631

I mean, that's how you

can accelerate things.

632

Otherwise, you're just basically

postponing the inevitable, uh,

633

problem or bottleneck where the two

companies are not aligned, like,

634

like you mentioned earlier, um.

635

And the, uh, it, it is about alignment

and I like to look at it, um, because

636

I'll, I'll put on my sales or BD hat,

uh, 'cause I come from that world.

637

Uh, you start with the who, you start with

the customer and work backwards, right?

638

If you're, if you don't have common

customer or common, um, uh, projected or

639

perspective customers, uh, you're going to

have that misalignment down the line too.

640

Because customer requirements, everyone

has a little different flavor, and

641

if someone's building something and

their core customer base is over

642

here, and you serve this customer

here, eventually, it's going to get

643

hard to get everyone on the same on

the same path to solve this problem

644

when this problem becomes a priority.

645

So I think that alignment too,

it's a lot easier when you start

646

with the customer and the who.

647

And then, you know, your why is, uh,

who was baked into a Y and then the how

648

comes when you understand the problem.

649

Dan Kultran: Yeah.

650

Excellent.

651

Matt.

652

Um, yeah, if I may comment here, I

think Matt already touched on the

653

fact that we do serve the same, um,

sort of customers right in the D.

654

O.

655

D.

656

military space.

657

Um, but more than that, I think

we serve the same similar mission.

658

And we have the same corporate

culture of agility, rapid delivery

659

of cutting edge technologies

for future defense technology.

660

Right?

661

And we're both working to disrupt the

status quo of technology capability

662

development for applications

today is we're like the disruptor.

663

Of the disruptor, right?

664

People want to brand themselves, you

know, primes or disruptor primes were

665

like the disruptor of the disruptor.

666

They were the new gen new

defense, uh, strategy, you

667

know, um, and, and we're just.

668

Creating things that can

fit in multiple scenarios.

669

Having architectures, because

we're not encumbered by.

670

What we already made, we came

to this company with nothing.

671

We have to build everything from

the ground up and therefore we can

672

think a little bit differently than

trying to fit a product that was

673

already, um, have a big R and D budget

behind it into other things, right?

674

So from the ground up, we design our

technology to have an architecture that

675

can fit on a boat, fit on an airplane, fit

on a Humvee, fix on, uh, you know, a J.

676

uh, LV, whatever it is.

677

So that's kind of like where we

see, you know, how our corporate

678

structure and our line of thinking

really aligned with drone shield.

679

Tim Winkler: Yeah.

680

I think it's fascinating just thinking

through, um, you know, a lot of the.

681

Difficulties of tapping into a

space like defense tech, right?

682

Because, um, for one, there's a lot of

red tape, a lot of bureaucracy, right?

683

Um, and how do you kind of cut through

that and, and maybe navigate one

684

of a, a little bit of a shortcut.

685

I think partnerships is a really

creative outlet for that, right?

686

Because the reality is.

687

Once you get a past performance under

your belt, it becomes a lot easier.

688

So if you can attach yourself to a project

or a technology or product that's being

689

built, that's kind of like a plug and

play, uh, without having to start from

690

scratch, you know, you save yourself a

lot, a lot of time from a BD perspective.

691

And I think, um, you know, that's

one way of You know, even though

692

you're both startups, but, you know,

maybe Epirus is a little bit more at

693

a, you know, a little bit, a little

bit further along in the process.

694

It's, it's really a way of helping

out, you know, somebody like a

695

drone shield that's trying to tap in

and scale it a little bit quicker.

696

Um, I'm just using that as a hypothetical.

697

I'm not saying that's how it went,

but I'm just playing that out.

698

It's like, I talked to a lot

of founders that are trying to

699

build dual use technologies.

700

And if they started commercial

and they have no idea on how to

701

really like transition this into.

702

A government customer, a partnership is a

really nice advantage to figure out a way

703

of, you know, hitch onto that wagon and

get that past performance under your belt.

704

Dan Kultran: Yeah, Tim, I think you

really touched on a point here I want to

705

comment on is this pull through, right?

706

So if we're successful as Epirus.

707

We can also pull DroneShield into our

success because we're already a partner.

708

So, if DroneShield is successful

in something else, DroneShield can

709

say, Hey, look at the technology.

710

We're already fully

integrated with Epirus.

711

You have a problem.

712

Pull our technology through.

713

So, either way, so, you know, bi

directional road that we all win, right?

714

And ultimately our customers win because.

715

Um, the time and the value of time

and the money, they don't have to

716

spend on all of that really, um, makes

a huge benefit for our customers.

717

Matt McCrann: Yeah,

that's a great point, Dan.

718

And then also, I'd add to that,

that, um, you know, we were

719

talking and focused on startups.

720

Um, our company in this, in the

last 12 months, drone shield

721

has, has really focused on the

transition from startup to scale up.

722

You need partnerships to

hit that scale up stride.

723

Uh, from a business perspective, we're

a small team, you know, a 200 on the EST

724

side, 85 or so on the drone shield side.

725

We can't be in every

conversation that we need to be.

726

We can't be in front of every

customer 5 days a week that we

727

need to be or would benefit from.

728

So it's the partnerships and having

that alignment with the partnerships

729

is like a force multiplier.

730

And that's, uh, so the last 12 months,

that's what we've really focused on.

731

Is building partnerships with companies

like Epirus ones that like to work

732

like we do disrupt like we do as well.

733

Um, I like the disruptors disruptor,

uh, uh, slogan there and the

734

tagline there, Dan, I think we're

going to have to do something like

735

Mike Gruen: that.

736

Dan Kultran: We're

737

Tim Winkler: building swag as we speak.

738

What I'm curious about the role of,

of say, like a strategic partnerships,

739

right within the org, um, you

know, I, I, earlier stages, uh,

740

Matt, maybe you can touch on this.

741

Is that really, you know, your job,

uh, in the BDC to, uh, you know,

742

identify, you know, who's, who's

going to be a good partner for

743

us, what opportunities coincide.

744

And then when does that role become

something that you're like, okay,

745

like I need to hire somebody that's

going to be focused as a, you know,

746

head of strategic partnerships

or something along those lines.

747

Like what, when does that, when did

it happen in your own evolution?

748

And, uh, what does that?

749

That department almost as a, if

it is a department, how does that

750

look like as the company grows?

751

It's

752

Matt McCrann: a department when all

of us put on that hat for the day,

753

and then that department goes away

when we put on a different hat.

754

No, so you're, you're, you're pulling

on a lot of accurate things there, Tim.

755

So it starts with the vision, right?

756

Um, and I alluded to that earlier.

757

We made a conscious effort saying this

is how we're going to build out our

758

sales, our business development efforts.

759

Uh, we have a strong core

team, uh, within DroneShield,

760

but we can't reach everywhere.

761

So how are we going to build that again?

762

It starts with the customer.

763

Who does the customer?

764

What problems do they have?

765

What other partners or technology

providers are they looking at?

766

And what are they?

767

How do they use our

stuff in their mission?

768

What when they purchase a drone

shield product or solution?

769

What effector?

770

A kinetic effect, or does that

touch a high power microwave?

771

Is that the vision they have?

772

So, okay, let's start building that

partnership, that team of partners

773

to solve problems based on the

problems that they're trying to solve

774

or scratching their heads around.

775

Um, so that's the vision part internally.

776

Then it's formalizing a relationship,

working with a company like Everest,

777

identifying what makes sense.

778

Where, where, what's your footprint?

779

What's our footprint?

780

Where are we trying to go?

781

Maybe there's a, a, a merging of

requirement capabilities on both sides.

782

And customer need, um, and

budget always helps too, right?

783

You don't want to shape everything.

784

It'd be nice if they were also

working to shape some, uh, budget

785

allocation to solve this problem.

786

Um, but that's so once that is understood

and there's a mutual agreement,

787

like, yes, we can do this together.

788

Uh, then it's.

789

Engineering team engineering team

linking up understanding the lower level

790

technical of what this needs to look like.

791

What could it look like?

792

And then the BD teams as well working

in unison on specific opportunities.

793

Uh, and that's where it kind of

flows down or flows through, uh, the

794

organization from, uh, from, from

our perspective, perspective there.

795

A really helpful

796

Tim Winkler: picture that

you just painted there.

797

Um, I think, uh, you know, I think about

it in the seat of a, you know, running

798

a small services company here and, um,

the idea of, you know, taking a lead

799

on, uh, just, you know, almost like

hand selecting, you know, what really

800

makes sense, dissecting the customer.

801

Uh, that we're working with and

seeing, you know, what are those

802

other pain points that we could help

scratch that itch by use of somebody's

803

other, you know, service or product.

804

Um, it's a, it's a really

simplistic way of painting it,

805

but it's easier said than done.

806

But, uh, it sounds like you all have.

807

Made a lot of, uh, success.

808

Uh, and, and I think it, it

only builds from that, right?

809

Once you see it, it working

and, uh, in a current scenario.

810

And then it's start to pull, pull apart

other areas that you could be affected.

811

Dan Kultran: Yeah, for sure.

812

And if I was to give advice to a

startup who's trying to do partnerships,

813

I would say it isn't easy, right?

814

What you see today are, um,

culmination of a lot of effort.

815

From the beginning stages, like

Matt said, who do we partner with?

816

Does it have strategic alignment?

817

So on and so forth.

818

You know, early on, when we looked

at drone shield, it goes across

819

the entire organization, right?

820

Um, strategic team brings forth.

821

Hey, you know, what do you think

about drone shield and whatnot?

822

That goes to everyone in the

organization, including me

823

looking at technology piece like.

824

Does DroneShield have the right

technology to be our partner, right?

825

And all of that, as we conclude and

we have our partners with DroneShield

826

today, it's not, doesn't even end there.

827

It takes a lot of nurture, a

lot of efforts in between to

828

get to where we are today.

829

Because there's a lot

of resources and time.

830

You know, there's going to be a lot

of calls that we've got to make.

831

Hey, these are the things

that we've got to do.

832

When do we do it?

833

Who do we assign to it, right?

834

DroneShield assigns a whole

team coming here to Everest.

835

Efforts assign a whole team of

engineers integrate drone shields

836

technology into, um, you know,

our, our whole suite of tools here.

837

So, and we need to make APIs and

don't you need to expose their APIs.

838

All of those things take

a lot of time and effort.

839

So choose your partner carefully.

840

That would be my advice to, you know,

startup wants to get into this game.

841

Mike Gruen: Yeah.

842

I mean, I think you're a spot on with

the engineering side and all of the,

843

those conversations of who's going

to own what part of the integration

844

and how that's all going to come.

845

And having been in those

conversations, it's a lot of fun.

846

Like if it's a good partner, those are,

can be fun conversations, um, about

847

all the different things you can do

and all the problems you can solve.

848

Um, but also on the sales marketing,

all the different other aspects, like

849

making sure that you understand, like.

850

Who's going to own the, like on

the go to market strategy and how

851

we're going to advertise, you know,

how, who's going to say what and

852

how we're going to coordinate on

853

Matt McCrann: all of that,

I think are things that,

854

Mike Gruen: um, especially engineers

don't really think about, right.

855

We think about it at this technical level.

856

Um, how can we integrate?

857

And they don't necessarily

think about like.

858

All right.

859

So then how do we communicate

this and how does it actually

860

look from a business perspective?

861

Matt McCrann: Absolutely.

862

It's got to be holistic like that, Mike,

because, um, you know, there's a full

863

disclaimer, not all partnerships work,

but you don't know until you, you know,

864

go through the vetting stages, like,

like you're saying, where, uh, Dan's

865

evaluating potential tech partners while

the BD team is also evaluating, is there,

866

is there a market for a joint offering?

867

Um, the, uh, the one thing, um, to be

aware of, uh, from my perspective is, uh,

868

shiny object syndrome where, you know,

there's a lot of cool tech out there.

869

And, oh, you, you're doing something cool.

870

We're doing something cool.

871

We, we should put it together.

872

Who's the customer.

873

What are you solving?

874

You can integrate a bunch

of things, but what is.

875

The end result.

876

What are you trying to get to?

877

Uh, so it's a very holistic approach

across an organization with the

878

business team with the engineering

team and then also with the overall

879

strategy at a corporate level.

880

Tim Winkler: Yeah, we, we, we had a, an

episode about like, um, post acquisition

881

expectations and kind of think a

little bit about that in terms of.

882

You know, how will these

teams merge together?

883

You know, how is it built up that,

you know, we're bringing these folks

884

in or we're acquiring this company,

um, that it's, uh, it's something that

885

translates to across the entire org.

886

It's not just like usually one department

that's impacted it, it, it, it impacts.

887

Everybody that's a part of it.

888

So it's just a fascinating,

uh, a fascinating topic.

889

Um, well, I, I, I want to save some

time here for, for our final segment,

890

but, uh, just a general takeaway is

just really, really fascinated with,

891

with what you guys are building and.

892

Um, you know, the use cases that you

all are doing, I think, is, uh, you

893

know, just a, a, a ton of, um, a ton of

positives that, that we'll learn from.

894

And, you know, I think, you know,

when we see, you know, some of the

895

stuff that, that's happened with

the, the war in Ukraine, um, I

896

think these are things that people.

897

Can start to, you know, puts them in a

seat of like, you know, there's scary shit

898

that's going on out there that, you know,

we want to start to, you know, create

899

tools to, to help solve some of these,

some of these problems that are happening.

900

Um, so we're, uh, uh, cheering

you all on from the sidelines and,

901

um, encouraged by, you know, the,

uh, the work that y'all are doing.

902

Um, well, let's, let's jump into

the, uh, the final segment here,

903

uh, the, the five second scramble.

904

So we're, we're gonna, you know, talk,

uh, you know, kind of quick rapid

905

fire, you know, Q and a, try to try to

keep your answers under five seconds.

906

Um, uh, some, some business, some

personal, I'm gonna, I'm gonna

907

start with you, Dan, and then, and

then I'll jump to you, uh, Matt.

908

So Dan, are you ready?

909

Okay.

910

Okay.

911

Yeah, as ready as I can be.

912

Okay.

913

Um, explain Epirus to me as

if I were a five year old.

914

Ooh, um,

915

Dan Kultran: that's a tough one,

but imagine a bunch of really crazy

916

people getting together with adult

supervision trying to accomplish a task.

917

And with a singular mind of solving that

problem, that's who we are, no matter how

918

hard it is, we will solve that problem.

919

And that's the kind of the growth

mindset that we have here at Epirus.

920

Nice.

921

I come on the technology that

I explained to you earlier,

922

Tim Winkler: that might be

over their heads and we'll,

923

we'll keep it at that for now.

924

Uh, how would you describe

the culture at Epirus?

925

Dan Kultran: Oh.

926

Uh, at the essence of who we are,

we're always having this convergence

927

of technology, the mission, and what

I call the growth mindset, right?

928

We really don't mind failure at Epes.

929

Mm-Hmm.

930

, you know, if we think about it,

um, you know, the things that

931

we're trying to do is really hard.

932

And if we are constantly, we're

constantly reminded that we fail.

933

That's the, that's the

key here, but it's okay.

934

We march on and we keep, um, you know,

going to 1st principle, understanding

935

the physics, understanding the

fundamentals, and we solve those problems.

936

And, you know, there are so many

that we solve here at Everest

937

on high power, microwave,

waveforms, and so on and so forth.

938

Um, it's a hard problem

we're, we're working on,

939

Mike Gruen: I would say, sorry,

usually I don't interject.

940

I'd say failure is not

learning from your mistakes.

941

That's when you failed.

942

Mistakes are fine.

943

It's not learning from them.

944

That's failure.

945

Dan Kultran: Anyway, go on, right on.

946

Tim Winkler: Yeah, I'm reading a

book called the mindset right now.

947

It's all about growth

mindset versus fixed mindset.

948

And it's, uh, yeah, it's fascinating.

949

So I like that answer.

950

I love that.

951

Um, what kind of technologist,

uh, thrives at Everest?

952

Oh, um,

953

Dan Kultran: someone that, uh, I

would say are not emotional about

954

things, um, because I think we

thrive a lot on praises, right?

955

Um, and someone with patience, someone

with, um, acumen to say, uh, and analyze.

956

The failures, like what Mike

said, you know, um, and why, and

957

are we breaking physics or not?

958

You know, we always ask that.

959

Is it, are we making, um, a mistake

by not ignoring the physics, right?

960

Is it possible, first of all, and if

it is, we'll find a way to save to, to

961

make sure that we solve that problem.

962

That would be the kind of people

that, uh, we hire here, not

963

just for engineering, right?

964

But for a supply chain, that thing

outside the box that can say, Hey,

965

you know, it took a long time if I

was at another company, but how can

966

I make that better here at Epirus?

967

Very cool.

968

Tim Winkler: What can folks be most

969

or what you, what you can tell us anyways?

970

Um,

971

Dan Kultran: yeah, no, I have a lot here.

972

I'm a CTO, right?

973

My mind is always dreaming.

974

But we're entering a phase of another

cycle of innovation here at Evers, right?

975

We're going to continue on advancing

and building our HPM portfolio, but

976

now we have the opportunity as we

mature our technology to some degree,

977

to have a new wave of innovation.

978

I can't tell you all the little things

that we're working on at Epirus, but

979

there's a ton of innovation that we're

working on from, you know, our ideas

980

with DARPA, from our ideas on even

including different things into Leonidas.

981

Very

982

Tim Winkler: cool.

983

If you could have any

superpower, what would it be?

984

Oh,

985

Dan Kultran: maybe ability to clone,

not myself, but clone my engineers.

986

They're hard to come by, you know,

987

Tim Winkler: um, so sounds

like Everest is hiring.

988

It sounds like as well.

989

Um, if you could, uh, if you

could pick one fast food joint to

990

establish as the first restaurant

on Mars, what would it be?

991

Oh, it's an easy

992

Dan Kultran: one.

993

I'm in here in the southwest.

994

It would be an in and out.

995

Ah, that's,

996

Tim Winkler: that's the most common

answer out there in California.

997

I can tell you a lot of folks would

argue five guys on you on that

998

one, but we'll, we'll let you,

we'll let you have the in and out.

999

All right.

This is good.

Um, what's something that you like

to do, but you're not very good at?

Um, software

Dan Kultran: programming.

I love to, um, do software, you know,

cause I'm a hardware guy, right?

Um, I feel like there's so much

more stress in, in software.

Cause at least in the hardware, you kind

of know you measure it fails and it has.

Few, I would say few relative to

software software, it's like, yeah, it

works, you can recompile and all that.

But then there's like, different

modes that you never thought of

that will make you fail and you

just can't wrap your head around it.

So I wish I was better

at software program.

Tim Winkler: Mike, what do you

think in a team, up an episode

here soon sounds like a good future

Mike Gruen: because it's funny

because I think the same thing about

hardware that it seems much more

complicated than software, but anyway,

we'll get, we'll move on after you

Dan Kultran: do another

Tim Winkler: podcast, let's get a couple

of, uh, embedded software engineers on

here, have them tell us what they think.

Uh, all right.

What, uh, what is a charity or corporate

philanthropy that's near and dear to you?

Ooh,

Dan Kultran: um, Man,

this one's a tough one.

Can I take a pass?

But we donate a lot as a family.

Um, and I'll put a stake in the ground.

I guess, you know, this could be

controversial, but, um, 1 of the

things that we do is 40 day for life.

Um, we not only donate our money,

but we donate a lot of our time.

Um, and I don't want to explain to you

what they do, but basically, um, we do a

lot of educational and, um, uh, kind of.

letting people know what's going on with

Planned Parenthood and things like that.

Tim Winkler: Yeah, we'll, we'll plug

the, um, the website in the, in the

show notes when we push it live.

Um, what's something that

you're very afraid of?

I'm afraid of the dark.

Oh, it's a common, that's a common one.

Um, I

Dan Kultran: mean, like really,

really afraid of the dark.

Tim Winkler: We'll keep, keep

the lights on here for you.

Dan Kultran: I I was little.

Oh, wow.

Tim Winkler: Awesome.

All right.

Uh, last one.

Uh, do you have a favorite

superhero of all time?

Oh,

Dan Kultran: man, I, I love Avengers.

My superhero would be,

uh, it's hard, it's hard.

This is a hard one.

I don't have, like, that's my favorite.

If I have to pick one, Wonder Woman, um,

I think, cause, uh, easy on the eyes.

Um, you know, she has a lot of

superpowers and she's more powerful

than most of the other Avengers.

Good

Tim Winkler: stuff.

I like that answer.

All right.

That that's it.

Um, you pass the flying colors there, Dan.

I appreciate that.

Uh, Matt, we're, we're gonna

kick it over to you now.

Okay.

We're close with you.

All right.

All right.

Um, some of these will,

will be, uh, fairly similar.

So explain drone shield to me

as if I were a five year old.

Matt McCrann: Yeah.

So drone shield, um, provides

technology that helps protect

people, uh, from bad guys.

Tim Winkler: Got it.

What, what would you say is your

favorite part about the culture at

Matt McCrann: DroneShield?

Oh, there's a lot.

Um, just recently, um, like I mentioned,

we were going through that transition

phase and the culture is, um, I'm noticing

a change in That it's, um, more organic

and it's taking on a life of its own and

it's, it's, um, it's really cool to see.

Um, you know, when, when you're there

from the early stages where it's really

dependent on 1 or 2 people that are

driving it and kind of the, the, um, the

brand to see how it morphs and evolves,

uh, with more people coming on board.

Um, so that's that's pretty cool.

Um, a core element is that

we're all mission focused.

It's all about the mission.

Uh, we move fast.

Um, and we, we speak directly

to, um, so there's not, you know,

and it comes from a good place.

So you can do a lot with that.

Um, when you have that kind

of candid, uh, candid culture.

Tim Winkler: What kind of

technologist thrives at DroneShield?

Matt McCrann: Uh, one that's

proactive, uh, one that's

curious and one that's resilient.

Uh, you know, things are not

gonna go the way you want.

Um, those requirements that you

think you're coming in to work on,

yep, throw them out the window.

Here's new ones, uh, because

something just changed.

Um, so someone who can roll with the

punches, um, and continue to understand

the why behind what they're doing.

Um, so that resilience aspect,

uh, goes a long way with us.

Tim Winkler: Nice.

are some things that you're really

excited about, uh, with, with some

of this growth at DroneShield?

Matt McCrann: Yeah.

So, um, we have a lot

of momentum right now.

Um, and it's been a lot

of, uh, groundwork laid.

Uh, we've grown, uh, two and three times

over, uh, year over year for the last four

years, um, and now we're taking a huge

And, uh, we have a lot of, um, cool

technology in the works that is coming

from, say like the TRL seven, which

is a technology readiness level,

um, where it can go out there and

be initially tested with end users.

We have a lot of cool projects at

that level that we're pushing out

now, and we'll see those mature

very quickly here, um, towards, uh,

So we're excited about a lot of things.

That's

Tim Winkler: awesome.

What was, uh, your

favorite cereal as a kid?

Matt McCrann: As a kid, Oh, whatever

was colorful and sweet right now,

you know, frosted mini wheats or

something, something a little, uh,

more, uh, nutritious, but yeah.

Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

Cinnamon Toast

Tim Winkler: Crunch.

CTC.

That's the number one answer right there.

Matt McCrann: That's good.

Well, it should be.

Tim Winkler: Exactly.

Are your kids allowed to have this cereal?

Matt McCrann: Cinnamon Toast Crunch

is a staple in the house still today.

That's why I still get to

try it every once in a while.

It's right next to the

Frosted Mini Wheats.

Tim Winkler: Strategic play.

What is a charity or corporate

philanthropy that's near and dear to you?

Matt McCrann: Yeah, so, um, good question.

Um, there's one that comes to mind, a

non profit, uh, called Task Force Antal.

Um, they do a lot of humanitarian

work, um, in war torn countries.

Uh, so there are two initiatives

right now, uh, they do work in Ukraine

providing, um, basically medical

training and first aid, uh, training

to civilians who, you know, um, have

their lives turned upside down and need

to be self sufficient on the ground.

Um, and then they do a lot of work

with, um, uh, the fallout of, uh,

folks from the pullout of Afghanistan.

So those are their two core missions

and they do a lot of good work.

Very small team.

Um, yeah, definitely,

definitely worth checking out.

Tim Winkler: How do you spell Antal?

Was it

Matt McCrann: A N T A L?

So it should be taskforce Antal, uh, dot

org if you're looking for the website.

Cool.

Tim Winkler: Yeah.

Yeah.

We'll, we'll post that in

the show notes as well.

Uh, if you could live in a

fictional world from a book or

movie, which one would you choose?

Matt McCrann: Um, uh, that's,

yeah, that's, uh, more of a

nonfiction guy and real world guy.

Um, but so the family is reading,

um, uh, all the Harry Potter

books right now with my youngest.

So, um, they, they kind of play

in our world, but yeah, I think

it'd be cool to live in that, in

that, um, fictional, uh, setting.

Tim Winkler: Nice.

Mike, did you watch Harry Potter?

Uh, yeah.

What's, what's the name of the,

what's the name of the little area

that, that we're referring to here?

What do you mean the name of the area?

Is it like, uh, what's the name of

his, uh, isn't the, uh, You mean the

Matt McCrann: Hogwarts?

The school, the name

Mike Gruen: of the school is Hogwarts.

But there's other schools,

but there's multiple schools.

It's a whole

Tim Winkler: thing.

Clearly I, I have some catching up to do.

It's a real world,

Matt McCrann: so it's like a

layer on top of the real world.

Okay.

Tim Winkler: Yeah.

That's why it resonates with you.

I got it.

Matt McCrann: Yeah, yeah.

It's still, it's still a little grounded.