Ever wondered how to step into the world of Product Management? Curious about what it takes to succeed and move up the ladder?
Today’s guest host, Becca Moran, speaks with Hunter Guerin about how he stepped into a new role as a Product Manager and where that career path led him.
They discuss:
- His background as a mechanical engineer in the defense contracting space, prior to stepping into product management
- Advice on how to get a job in product and ways to navigate into the field.
- How to create a balanced career by making time for sabbaticals.
- Ways that Product Managers can advocate for themselves in order to step into leadership positions and move forward in their career.
- How Hunter transitioned out of Product Management into the role of a startup founder.
About today’s host: With 5+ years of experience leading startup product teams and almost 10 years in the DC tech scene, Becca offers a wealth of valuable insights. She is currently the Vice President, Product & Engagement at Procurated, where she leads the product, design, and engineering functions for the company.
About today’s guest: Hunter Guerin is the founder of LLAMAWOOD, an on-demand firewood delivery platform. He has 15+ years of experience in engineering and product development, he loves local communities and is obsessed with wood fires. You can find him in Richmond, VA, where he lives with his wife and two kids, playing with fire.
Transcript
Hey, listeners, Tim Winkler here, your host of The Pair Program.
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:We've got exciting news introducing our
latest partner series Beyond the Program.
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:In these special episodes, we're
passing the mic to some of our savvy
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:former guests who are returning as
guest hosts, get ready for unfiltered
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:conversations, exclusive insights,
and unexpected twist as our alumni
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:pair up with their chosen guest.
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:Each guest host is a trailblazing
expert in a unique technical field.
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:Think data, product management,
and engineering, all with a keen
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:focus on startups and career growth.
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:Look out for these bonus episodes
dropping every other week,
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:bridging the gaps between our
traditional pair program episodes.
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:So buckle up and get ready to
venture Beyond the Program.
13
:Enjoy.
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:Becca Moran: I'm Becca and
this is How I Got Hired.
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:How I Got Hired is a series of
interviews where product managers share
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:how they landed great product roles.
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:From PMs who made a career pivot into
tech, to those with more formal training,
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:How I Got Hired captures the various ways
to open doors into the world of product.
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:We'll be talking about each guest's
recipe for success, what motivated
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:them to get into product, how they
prepared for the interview and what
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:they did to set themselves apart.
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:Today, my guest is Hunter Guerin.
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:Hunter is the founder of LLAMAWOOD,
the world's first on demand
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:firewood delivery marketplace.
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:Before that, Hunter spent four and a
half years in various product roles at
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:Xometry, which is an online marketplace
for custom manufactured parts.
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:Hunter, welcome to the show.
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:Glad to be here.
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:So great to have you.
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:Um, so Hunter and I, uh,
work together at Xometry.
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:So we'll be telling the
story of how Hunter got hired
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:there, uh, on today's show.
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:Um, but before we get into that
story, uh, we wanted to kick things
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:off with a little icebreaker.
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:So, Hunter, are you ready
for two truths and a lie?
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:I
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:Hunter Guerin: am ready as I'll ever be.
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:Becca Moran: Alright, um,
do you want to go first?
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:Hunter Guerin: Sure.
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:Um, you, uh, many of these, when I
was thinking, um, about ideas, I feel
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:like, you know, so I know it's pretty
difficult and basically took almost
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:all true stories that you probably know
and just tweaked a little bit of it.
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:So it's Yeah.
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:If you, if you, if you figure
this 1 out, I'll be impressed.
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:All right.
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:Appreciate the warning.
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:Okay.
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:So, um, 2 truths and a lie 1st.
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:Um, so I am from Birmingham, Alabama.
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:Um, that is absolutely true.
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:I'm not lying about that.
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:I'm from Birmingham and Michael Jordan.
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:Um, when I was, uh, I don't know,
below maybe 15 or something.
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:Um, stopped playing for the Birmingham,
I'm sorry, stopped playing for the,
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:uh, Chicago Bulls and started playing
baseball for the Birmingham Barons.
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:And so I was at the first game,
uh, that he hit a home run.
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:I actually caught the home run ball.
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:Number two.
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:My daughter was born in the front seat
of my Forerunner while driving to the
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:hospital to have her at a hospital.
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:And number three is I was the first
person on Earth to hold a camera
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:that had just been brought down from
the International Space Station.
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:Becca Moran: Wow.
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:All of those are kind of wild.
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:Um.
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:Okay.
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:At first I thought the, the first
one was gonna be like a sports
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:trivia question, and I was like,
why are you doing this to me
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:But, um, that one feels
the most like a lie to me.
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:Hunter Guerin: Um, so the
catching Michael Jordan's Yeah.
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:Run.
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:Yeah.
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:You are correct.
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:Um, yes, I was at the
game, but I did not, wow.
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:I did not catch the home run.
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:You
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:Becca Moran: know, and that was kind
of my thought or it was like, what are
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:the chances that you would catch that?
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:Oh, you're good.
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:I thought maybe the gotcha would
be that Katie actually gave birth
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:in the backseat of your car.
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:Cause I do kind of remember that story
and I was like, was that the one little
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:Hunter Guerin: tweak?
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:But yeah, I thought, I thought about
making that tweak, but, um, cause I think,
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:yeah, you knew the story of the car birth.
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:Becca Moran: Infamous, um, that's amazing.
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:Okay.
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:I kind of went like a similar, I think
these are all going to feel very true.
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:Um, all right.
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:Number one, I have a British passport.
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:Number two, I can speak
with a British accent.
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:Number three, I was born in Italy.
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:Hunter Guerin: Okay.
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:I absolutely know you can speak
with a British accent cause I
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:heard it and it is hilarious.
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:Um, born in Italy.
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:Uh, you know, I think I'm going
to put that one as, as the lie.
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:Cause I thought you were born in Alaska.
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:Becca Moran: Good try.
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:Um, I was in fact born in Italy.
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:Uh, my dad was stationed at
the air force base there.
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:Uh, the lie is that I don't
have a British passport.
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:Hunter Guerin: Yeah.
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:That, that's tough.
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:Becca Moran: I know.
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:It, it was kind of hiding in plain sight.
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:You'd think.
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:Yeah.
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:British accent.
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:British passport.
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:Hunter Guerin: I thought it was.
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:Yeah.
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:Becca Moran: That's your religion.
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:Maybe, maybe I'll get one.
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:But, uh, no.
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:Um, well, you know, I feel like even
though we've been friends for a while,
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:we're always learning something new.
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:Hunter Guerin: We're in Italy.
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:We're in Italy.
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:Becca Moran: Um, so I was born in a
place called Porta Noni, um, which is
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:near, uh, my data station at Aviano Air
Force Base, which is like Northern Italy.
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:Um, yeah, we went back as a family
when I was like a little kid and I
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:only like, all I remember is, um, Like
having gelato and thinking this is the
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:best ice cream in the entire world.
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:Like, what, what is this?
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:Um, but yeah, yeah, pretty cool.
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:Um, all right, well, let's get into,
uh, kind of the heart of the matter
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:why we're here today to talk about.
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:Your unique journey into product.
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:Um, I love this story.
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:When I was thinking about who I wanted
on the show, I thought of you right away.
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:I thought you would be such a great guest.
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:And, um, I'm excited not only to talk
about how you got into product, but then.
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:Um, have your path to becoming
an entrepreneur as well.
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:So, um, so let's start at the beginning.
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:Um, so in talking about how you ended
up joining Xometry as a product manager,
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:let's rewind a little bit from there.
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:Where were you just before that?
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:What were you doing before
you interviewed at Xometry?
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:Hunter Guerin: Yeah.
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:So, uh, this goes, uh,
with my third truth.
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:Um, I was a mechanical engineer
for an aerospace and defense, um,
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:contractor for a little over nine years.
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:Um, and that, that particular
story, um, the company had made
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:a, a unit, um, electronics unit
that flew on the international
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:space station before I got there.
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:And, uh, kind of early on, I did
a lot of work in clean rooms.
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:Um, I did.
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:Analysis, uh, mechanical and structural
and thermal, um, was kind of the
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:main job, but this, this touches
on some probably later questions,
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:but I really enjoyed the physical.
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:Uh, like, working with the physical
parts, as opposed to the CAD
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:model, or in in sort of analysis
world, which is all theoretical.
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:So any chance I had to go into
a clean room and, like, touch a.
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:Piece of hardware I would and so I just
went over with my boss to the place
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:where they had brought this camera back.
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:And we all were in their clean
room and somehow I started
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:holding the box and they had to.
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:They had to take like, pieces off of it in
order for them to get inside and get the
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:data that they were trying to get was a
scientific instrument and I ended up just.
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:Holding it.
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:And then as soon as they took
like the support piece off,
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:it was just like in my hands.
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:So I was kind of holding this
electronics unit and everybody
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:in the room just simultaneously
said, don't drop it quickly.
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:Like, put it down.
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:I was, uh, I was a mechanical engineer
doing structural and thermal analysis
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:on, um, aerospace and space flight
and airborne electronics units.
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:That's so crazy.
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:Yeah, it was my only job.
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:I worked there right out of college.
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:I was, I got a mechanical engineering
degree from Clemson, um, and then
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:immediately moved to DC and started
working for this company for, um, it
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:was a great company and I loved it.
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:Learned a ton every day.
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:So I never really, um, needed
to go anywhere else because
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:it was such a great job.
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:So I've been there a little
over nine years, I believe.
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:And so
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:Becca Moran: during those nine years,
like, did you have a thought in the back
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:of your mind that you were like, kind
of interested in tech, you know, or, or
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:product specifically, um, were there any
kind of seeds of that during that time?
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:Hunter Guerin: Yeah.
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:Um, so I started that job in:
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:Um, and then I.
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:My wife and I went to the Bahamas, um,
and I read a book on the beach there
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:called, uh, the four hour work week
by Tim Ferris and immediately became
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:obsessed with starting my own business.
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:So:the idea to start a business,
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:um, kind of was planted in me.
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:Um, and then around:brother, um, took a job at, um,
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:a startup in Silicon Valley, um,
he was the head of data science.
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:And so I started hearing about software
businesses and then his stories
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:and I started getting intrigued
with, uh, software businesses,
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:but I actually had no idea what
product, um, product management was.
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:So I had never while a mechanical
engineer, I didn't necessarily
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:dream of becoming a product manager.
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:I didn't know it existed.
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:Um, I did.
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:I was interested in software sales
because 1 thing I learned while being
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:a mechanical engineer is I actually
loved to present to customers.
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:I like to talk to customers and
I liked this sort of physical.
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:Uh, work and so, um, you know, I
wanted I was interested in starting
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:a business, but, you know, in terms
of, like, new experiences that I
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:wanted to gain, I was interested in
sales and I was interested in, um.
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:Yeah, software development in general,
um, the, the development practices
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:and sort of this idea of, like,
trying things and crashing and trying
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:it again and crashing really fast.
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:And so, um, yeah, no.
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:No idea what product management was,
which I think that that comes later in my
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:story, but I was definitely interested in.
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:Like software development businesses.
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:Yeah.
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:Becca Moran: And so how
did you stumble across
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:Hunter Guerin: Xometry?
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:So, um, about that time in:became interested in software businesses.
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:So I started talking to people
about, um, you know, what was
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:out there and just learning more.
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:And one of my friends actually had this,
um, relationship with this guy as kind
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:of a unique, uh, way of her knowing him.
221
:Um, was at a VC firm that, um,
had invited this founder named
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:Randy to a, um, to some event.
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:I can't remember what it was, but so
she had like dealt with, with this,
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:with this founder, um, for this VC firm.
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:And then she also previously worked on
Capitol Hill and knew Andy because he had,
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:had a, um, political, um, kind of history.
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:And so she kind of knew this
guy and told me about this.
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:Startup that was doing something,
you know, she didn't know a ton
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:of the details, but it was doing
something for manufacturing and
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:the mechanical engineering space.
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:And so I was like, oh, cool, let
me, I'd love to connect with him.
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:So, um.
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:She connected us, and I really connected
with him because I was interested in.
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:Talking to him about what it was
like to start a company and how
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:he had those questions with his
wife and how he left, you know, a
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:comfortable job to go start a business.
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:He had actually started businesses before
that, but it was really a call to learn
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:more about his entrepreneurial journey.
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:I actually, at the time I had no
interest in, um, like jumping to Xometry.
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:I just wanted to meet Randy.
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:Um, so, um, once we got connected,
then that was sort of the beginning
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:of the, of my journey to Xometry.
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:Becca Moran: Yeah, I love that.
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:And I think that like.
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:Um, one thing I've heard from other guests
that I've had on the show and, and one
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:thing that I've seen to be true in my
own experience is just like, so much can
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:come from these just like, I don't know,
casual conversations and, and I think
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:approaching your career with a sense of.
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:Just natural curiosity and,
uh, hearing people's stories.
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:And, you know, I, I think sometimes,
um, when, when a lot of what we're
251
:exposed to is kind of the, the same set
of like super success stories, right?
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:Like how did Elon Musk get to where
he is or Jeff Bezos or whatever.
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:Um, you forget that like, there's
people in our midst that have, uh,
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:achieved incredible success and.
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:Um, the path can just look so
different and, you know, um, what a
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:cool opportunity to be able to just
have a conversation with someone
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:like Randy and, and understand,
um, his story as an entrepreneur.
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:So, yeah.
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:That's super cool.
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:So how,
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:Hunter Guerin: go ahead.
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:I was gonna say, this podcast is
called How I Got Hired, so I feel.
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:Um, obligated to to sort of
share this is that, you know, of
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:course, like, I've talked to many
people since getting that job.
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:Um, I'd only had 1 job, so I was
no expert in getting a new job.
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:Um, but I've from that experience and
then many, many future experiences.
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:Learn the valuable lesson of if you
ask somebody for advice, they, this
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:saying goes, if you ask somebody
for advice, they'll give you money.
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:If you ask for money,
they give you advice.
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:So, I mean, if you ask for advice,
they give you a job might be the
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:situation with with the Randy.
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:Um, yeah, that's, you know, if
anybody asks me how to get a job
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:and product or talking about.
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:How to, you know, I'm trying to figure
out where my passion is and, you
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:know, I don't know what I want to do.
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:And so I just find some people that are
doing cool things and ask them for advice.
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:So how'd you get there?
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:You know, and that will
start a snowball for sure.
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:Yeah.
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:Becca Moran: And that
in and of itself, right?
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:Like part of being a good
product person is asking good
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:questions and being curious.
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:So like, it's kind of, you know,
a little bit meta, but like, Just
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:by doing that, you're kind of
displaying the types of skills that
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:make for a good product person.
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:So, um, yeah, it kind
of comes full circle.
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:So how did these conversations then
progress to, you know, Hey, you asked
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:for advice, but here, how about a job?
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:Hunter Guerin: Yeah.
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:Uh, so I remember this like it was
yesterday, cause it's kind of funny.
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:Um, so we connected in
:
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:And so I emailed Randy, um, and After
after getting connected, I said, you
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:know, I'd love to meet, uh, but I'm
about to go on a sabbatical for 7 weeks.
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:Um, so let me pay you when I get back.
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:So, we finally, we were, I was going
to try to go into the office in
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:Gaithersburg and meet him in person.
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:That ended up, it didn't happen.
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:We got on a phone call, um, and I
happened to be coming back from.
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:I had done some work at NASA Goddard that
day, so I was like, where are you, Hunter?
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:I was like, well, I'm just
coming back from NASA.
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:It's kind of a surreal thing to
be able to say to somebody that.
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:Runs a manufacturing business
that sort of, you know, targets
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:aerospace defense customers.
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:Um, but so, you know, I just sort of asked
him some of those questions, you know,
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:I'm interested in, um, learning about
how you decided, uh, to, to make the job.
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:And also, why did you start
this business in the DC area?
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:You know, everybody, a lot of people
start startups out in Silicon Valley or
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:whatever, some of these other known tech
hubs, uh, but he started this company and.
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:Gaithersburg, Maryland.
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:So, and, um, he eventually said,
you know, what's like, what's your,
311
:what's your purpose on this call?
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:And I said, well, I'm
just trying to learn.
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:Cause I, I'd love to one
day start a business.
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:Um, I think it's really interesting to
me, um, with a mechanical engineering
315
:background, I am interested in
businesses that have a mechanical
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:or sort of, like I said earlier,
physical product, but they sell it.
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:Via e commerce platform, um,
that you're able to sort of, uh,
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:test and then make modifications
to the like physical product.
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:Um, I later, I think I later learned
that this process is called agile
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:software development, but it's
basically, you know, trying to.
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:Put out an MVP and, and
get feedback and update.
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:And then also since we live in this
digital world, we're able to, you know,
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:sort of create, figure out quickly
whether there's demand for this product.
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:So at the time I was creating landing
pages and these like simple Google ads
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:to drive traffic towards these various
products that I was messing around with.
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:Um, and I guess, you know, we can
go deeper into some of that stuff,
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:but I was sort of explaining.
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:Those things and that I was
really customer focused.
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:I learned that, um, you know,
as a mechanical engineer, you
330
:have to be very detail oriented.
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:And a lot of times you can get
kind of siloed into a specific
332
:piece of a bigger system.
333
:And I always was really interested in the
larger system and talking to customers
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:about it and hearing their needs and
presenting what we had built to them
335
:and answering questions, et cetera.
336
:So he said, you know, well, um.
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:There's this job called product
manager, and this gets to, like, how
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:I learned about product management
and, uh, we're, I think we're
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:looking for somebody, um, right now.
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:And you've, you know, you're a
mechanical engineer, and, um, it might
341
:be something that you'd be interested in.
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:And if you send me your resume, I'll
shoot it over to the right people and
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:we can kind of take it from there.
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:So, uh, that was basically
my intro to product.
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:And, uh, and then I send my resume and.
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:Okay.
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:And then, uh, did you mention,
I think, okay, did you ask
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:about the interview or not yet?
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:No, that
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:Becca Moran: was kind of my next question.
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:Just kind of, but I was just smiling,
thinking about like Randy being
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:the person to introduce you to the
concept of, of product management.
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:Uh, but that's awesome that, you know,
he heard what you were saying and kind
354
:of connected the dots and realize that
that would be such a great way for you
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:to learn a lot of those things that
you were describing and, and maybe at
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:that point didn't even really have like
the vocabulary to, um, you know, like
357
:communicate in a succinct way, but, um,
to kind of hear that and say like, Oh,
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:maybe give this product thing a try.
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:That's pretty cool.
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:Yeah,
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:Hunter Guerin: you actually
reminded me of something.
362
:Um, again, How I Got Hired,
uh, I was thinking about the
363
:funny thing is on that call.
364
:I'm talking to Randy
about starting a business.
365
:I think 1 of the 1st
things he said as well.
366
:If you want to start a business,
you definitely can't take 7 weeks
367
:off going to Argentina and I say,
well, that's why I did it before.
368
:Um, but the other thing about
getting hired, I think is.
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:Yeah.
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:He, in that conversation, I don't
think he asked me anything really
371
:about what I did professionally.
372
:Uh, I mean, he knew I was
a mechanical engineer.
373
:He knew I was coming home from NASA.
374
:Um, but, uh, it was that vacation.
375
:I think that like potentially
made me sound like somebody worth,
376
:or at a minimum, just it's stuck
in, out in his mind about this.
377
:Random guy who called him that had
just gotten back from Argentina.
378
:Um, and, you know, I was thinking about,
like, somebody says this, but that, like,
379
:a lot of times when you're interviewing,
like, a sabbatical or, like, a crazy
380
:trip is something worth putting on your
resume because the person, the people
381
:you're talking to might become more
interested in that trip than they are in,
382
:like, what you've done professionally.
383
:So.
384
:Um, that's sort of my plug to say,
don't be afraid to sort of, like,
385
:highlight some weird, like, funny
things about you in your resume so
386
:that you stand out additionally to
the, you know, accomplishments you've.
387
:You've had in the past, but
388
:Becca Moran: yeah, well, and on that note
to, you know, I, um, this is potentially
389
:a topic for a whole nother discussion,
but I feel like you have always been a
390
:really strong advocate for sabbaticals.
391
:And I remember, um, at Xometry kind
of when you were gearing up to go on
392
:the sabbatical then, uh, you know,
When you had first mentioned the idea
393
:to me, I was like, Oh, my God, like,
you can't just go on a sabbatical.
394
:Like, how do you and you were just like.
395
:Well, just ask like, you know, like I
think so many people just don't even like
396
:talk themselves out of it immediately.
397
:And I remember that conversation
and thinking like, yeah, good point.
398
:Like why not just ask and, and,
you know, I think you've always
399
:been very thoughtful in presenting,
you know, a, a good case for it.
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:Right.
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:Kind of like, here's, here's
how I'm going to make sure that.
402
:My work is covered and that it's
not disruptive to the business and,
403
:um, you know, all of these things.
404
:And, uh, you know, I, I think there's
certainly this kind of theme in your
405
:career where these sabbaticals have
been really transformative for you and.
406
:Um, yeah, I think you're, you're,
uh, I consider you at least a bit
407
:of a thought leader in that regard.
408
:Hunter Guerin: Awesome.
409
:I like to hear that.
410
:When you interview me on how
I took a sabbatical podcast,
411
:Becca Moran: we'll go in deeper on that.
412
:Um, okay.
413
:So you.
414
:Randi says, Hey, maybe think
about this whole product thing.
415
:And then we had an opening at the time
you came in and interviewed what, what
416
:was that process like preparing for
an interview for a job that You didn't
417
:know it was a thing not that long ago.
418
:Hunter Guerin: Yeah, I, you know, um,
well, the first thing that I did, um,
419
:probably even before getting the invite
to interview is I was, I'd become
420
:interested in geometry and I was kind
of curious what it was all about.
421
:So we were working on, um.
422
:Something at the time, and I was
designing this fairly, um, simple part
423
:that was not sort of mission critical.
424
:Um, so it was, it was not super expensive.
425
:Um, and in engineering companies,
a lot of times, like, and many
426
:procurement companies, um.
427
:If if something's over, like,
:
428
:purchasing department and you have
to get multiple bids and everything.
429
:But if you're just making a little, like,
prototype, or trying to make something
430
:for a test fixture, which is actually
what I was doing, um, you can the engineer
431
:can submit requests to manufacturers
and then basically purchase it and so.
432
:I needed to manufacture this thing
and I said, well, let me give a try.
433
:So, um, real quick for, um,
anyone listening is a on demand
434
:marketplace for custom manufacturing
and you could upload a CAD file.
435
:It would generate a predicted price
to manufacture and and, um, the lead
436
:time and the price to manufacture.
437
:And then, um, it spits out a
price and you can just buy online.
438
:Yeah.
439
:And so this
440
:Becca Moran: was pretty revolutionary
because the historical process for
441
:doing so would involve like turning your
CAD file, which is kind of a 3D design
442
:rendering into a 2 dimensional like PDF
drawing and then sending that drawing
443
:to a bunch of machine shops and then.
444
:They give you prices back
and you don't know really how
445
:they came up with that price.
446
:It can be wildly different.
447
:And there's just a lot of back and forth.
448
:It's a very antiquated process.
449
:And so if you imagine, um, you know,
for, for Xometry, this experience
450
:that Hunter's describing, uploading
a file and knowing Instantaneously,
451
:what it could cost you to have that
manufactured was a pretty big deal.
452
:Yeah,
453
:Hunter Guerin: exactly.
454
:And, and when I was doing this, um,
at the time you, it was, it was fairly
455
:common to, for a few companies out there
for you to be able to upload a CAD file
456
:and get the price to print 3D print,
because That's super fairly simple.
457
:It's just volume of material.
458
:Plus like the time it takes
the printer to print it.
459
:So it's fairly easy formula.
460
:The sort of revolutionary thing I think
at the time for Xometry was that they
461
:were doing that, but for CNC machining.
462
:And so I actually thought just
through the experience and using the
463
:website that Xometry was basically
just a really optimized machine
464
:shop in Gaithersburg, Maryland.
465
:That allowed you to upload CAD
files and get a price and then
466
:you would buy and they would make
it and they would ship it to you.
467
:That was sort of my impression.
468
:Um, when I first did the test.
469
:So, as an engineer, um, you know, I had a
couple of things that I was interested in.
470
:Number 1 is, like, making
sure that it was going to be a
471
:reputable seller, um, manufacturer.
472
:If I was going to, if I was going
to then kind of push that design
473
:or that quote onto procurement
and say, hey, can I buy this?
474
:Um, you know, I needed to be
sure it was, was going to work.
475
:So going through the process, I was
attempting to generate, um, an output
476
:from Xometry's app that I could share
with our procurement and my boss.
477
:Um, and so I had, I had some interesting
sort of, uh, struggles through the
478
:process and we ended up not buying.
479
:The thing, so unfortunately, at the time,
I didn't have the, like, start to finish
480
:experience of symmetry, but then I think
looking at, like, the job description,
481
:you know, it's like, understand customer
requirements, um, and solve problems
482
:that people don't even know they have
and, uh, manage a list of, uh, features,
483
:um, in a road map, you know, so it was.
484
:Looking at the job description
at the time, I was a mechanical
485
:engineer, so I like to say that
I was like a hardware product
486
:developer, um, and or product manager.
487
:And then all of a sudden I was looking
to go into software product management.
488
:So I was able to link those 2 together
and come up with sort of like, here's
489
:how I approach, um, the process
of creating, uh, something from
490
:scratch or defining a specification.
491
:That's that was that was really big.
492
:Um, and then.
493
:Mm hmm.
494
:Yeah, so preparing for the interview,
um, just sort of matching that
495
:mechanical engineering experience
to product management experience.
496
:And then also, I think
that there was a question.
497
:I either got access to it before
the interview, or they asked
498
:me in the interview, but it was
what, like, what app do you use?
499
:I think this is pretty
common management question.
500
:What app do you use and love?
501
:And like, tell us why, and then
what would you do to change
502
:it and make it better, etc.
503
:So I sort of prepared that.
504
:Wait, what app did you talk about?
505
:I talked about Jewel, which is
an app from ChefSteps, and it
506
:controls a at home sous vide stick.
507
:Oh, yes!
508
:And I love that app.
509
:I still love it to this day.
510
:Um, and the thing that bothered
me is, for some reason, if you The
511
:jewel doesn't have a power button.
512
:So you basically just like
plug it in and unplug it.
513
:And if you unplug it without turning it
off via the app, the next time you log in,
514
:you get this weird alert warning message.
515
:That's like, Julie didn't turn off
correctly and there's wifi issues.
516
:And I never actually figured out how
to, how to get that to not show up.
517
:And so that was the thing that I was
going to change is somehow to help the
518
:user figure out why they're getting
this error message, but I don't know
519
:that that was the best answer, um,
for that interview question, but.
520
:Becca Moran: But I mean, I think
just having thought about that, and
521
:I think it's good advice for anyone,
um, going into a product interview
522
:that like a very common thing to
ask about is like, what are some
523
:of your experiences with products?
524
:And like, let's unpack that.
525
:Right.
526
:And so, um, you know, I think that's a
question that you can answer off the cuff.
527
:Um, you know, Fairly well, but it is
something that's nice if you anticipate
528
:it and you can think through, well,
what's a good example of something that
529
:I use and love and I could give some
thoughtful reasons why and what are some
530
:things that I would change about it and
why, like, that's just kind of some basic
531
:stuff, but to be prepared with that kind
of answer, I, I would have to assume I
532
:know Having been a part of a number of
product manager interviews, we almost
533
:always ask a question like that, right?
534
:Because it's, you want to just get
the basics of like, how does somebody
535
:think about the products that they
use and opportunities for improvement?
536
:And then, then it's kind of a whole
nother thing to like, you know, a lot of
537
:the, the product role, and I'd love to
get into this topic a little bit more.
538
:A lot of the product role is.
539
:Not using your own personal experience,
but understanding different kind of
540
:person's experience and anticipating
what they might want or need.
541
:Um, and so this is something that
I've always thought was interesting
542
:with your background where.
543
:You know, in a lot of ways, you, there
were probably lots of times where
544
:you could kind of reference your own
experience and you're not imagining,
545
:Oh, what, what does a mechanical
engineer need in this situation?
546
:You actually know, because you
were a mechanical engineer.
547
:So, um, my question for you is like
reflecting on that, like, how do you
548
:think that helped you in your role
at Xometry to be able to reference
549
:your own personal experience?
550
:And were there ever times where you felt
Potentially, like, limited by that or that
551
:that created a challenge in and of itself.
552
:Hunter Guerin: Yeah, for sure.
553
:Um, I, you know, through that process
of using the app, I basically, I didn't
554
:do it at the time, but I identified,
you know, 5 to 10 things that I would
555
:do to sort of up the instant quoting
platform, which is what I ended up
556
:becoming the product manager for.
557
:Um, and, uh, I ended up doing basically
Or I ended up sort of creating the
558
:feature stories and working development
team to release features that were,
559
:you know, updates to the system that
I was sort of wanting to to make.
560
:So out of this list of 5 to
10 things, I ended up, um.
561
:Working through all of them, and then it
became like, well, what next, you know,
562
:and that's when I think, um, what really
always impressed me is that Xometry
563
:didn't have at least in product and,
uh, marketing, um, software developers.
564
:Um, data scientists, you know, the sort of
like teams that I worked with a lot, there
565
:weren't very many, if any people that had
experience as a mechanical engineer or,
566
:um, uh, you know, manufacturing parts, um,
there were plenty of mechanical engineers,
567
:it's on the tree on the operations team,
but on kind of in our domain, there.
568
:It was a lot of sort of non experts,
and I certainly was not an expert, but a
569
:lot of people that that knew very little
about, uh, when coming into theometry
570
:about the whole sort of market that we
were serving, but I was so impressed
571
:with how basically people that have no
idea about mechanical engineering and
572
:like what mechanical engineers may need.
573
:Uh, then coming in and learning
through talking to customers and
574
:reading, uh, you know, content on
the Internet, asking questions.
575
:And so, um, I was sort of inspired by a
lot of that to, to try to take this sort
576
:of like beginner, you know, beginner eyes,
or I think that's what, what's called,
577
:uh, you know, first principles, you know,
dial it back to say, okay, let's, let's
578
:pretend that like, I don't know anything
about this and just try to learn through.
579
:Through talking to people, um, I
think it definitely helped in a lot of
580
:conversations, but I also think it, you
know, probably limited me, um, in, in,
581
:um, certain ways of not being able to see
what I, you know, didn't already know.
582
:I was just, I was just saying like,
when I think one thing with software
583
:development and startups is a lot of
times something is not possible today,
584
:but then tomorrow some update to the app.
585
:Releases and all of a sudden
that thing that wasn't possible
586
:yesterday is possible today.
587
:And if you come back to ideas,
sometimes it's easy to say, well, we
588
:can't do that because of X, Y, and Z.
589
:And then the person asking kind of looks
into it's like, well, actually, like,
590
:why not, you know, or why can't we do it
or and all of a sudden it's like, well,
591
:uh, and you're sort of defending this.
592
:I tried, we tried, but it didn't work.
593
:And so, you know, now it will never work.
594
:And um, unlearning that, like,
that things that didn't work in
595
:the past will continue to not work.
596
:It's like totally bogus in software
597
:Becca Moran: development.
598
:We talk about that all the time.
599
:Like there's so many things that
we have tried that didn't work
600
:and it's, it's hard to like It's
a natural reaction to be like, Oh,
601
:well, we tried it and it didn't work.
602
:So it would be a waste
of time to try it again.
603
:But to your point, like oftentimes these
are things that we tried years ago.
604
:The business is entirely different
now, like the way we might approach
605
:it could be totally different.
606
:So like, yeah, that's something that is,
uh, a bit of a mantra within procurated.
607
:Now it's just like not to write
something off because we tried
608
:it one time and it didn't work.
609
:Um, It's you never know kind of what new
perspective might allow something to work.
610
:Um, and I think the other point that you
made that is interesting, and I've seen
611
:in my experience is, um, yes, Xometry
had a number of people internally that
612
:had some good experience in terms of.
613
:Mechanical engineering and things
like that, where, um, I always felt
614
:very lucky to be able to, like,
you know, call up someone on the
615
:operations team and ask a question.
616
:And, um, I think that's.
617
:It can be super helpful.
618
:Um, it's also, it can become a
bit of a crutch sometimes, right?
619
:Where like, if you feel like you work
with people that are a proxy for your
620
:user, you might not actually pick up
the phone and call your real users.
621
:And, and you can get a little bit of
a warped perspective because You feel
622
:like you're getting user feedback,
but you're still talking to people
623
:that are like a part of your bubble.
624
:Um, and we have the same challenge
of procurator too, right?
625
:Like, we've got some people that have
had careers in government procurement,
626
:and it's incredibly helpful to have
that subject matter expertise in
627
:house, but we also have to remember
that like, those people may not be
628
:Like perfectly representative of
the opinions of our users in mass
629
:and so really remembering to, like,
leverage that but not let that be
630
:everything is, I think, super important.
631
:Yeah, um, so you, you come in, you do
this interview, you, you talk about
632
:this app, um, and you get the role.
633
:Um, and you have this great career at
Xometry and you move up, um, could you
634
:share a little bit about just kind of
like what, what your role was when you
635
:started, how things evolved and just
like a little bit of just the quick
636
:story of like your career path during
your, your four and a half years at
637
:Hunter Guerin: Xometry.
638
:Yeah, um, so I, um, the, the, the
interview, um, story that I'd like to
639
:share that's, um, that's related to the
last thing we were talking about is, you
640
:know, having having past experience with
the market or product or whatever it is
641
:you're, you're working on is can be, you
know, you can have blinders and tunnel
642
:vision sometimes because your opinion
is, um, If you value your own opinion a
643
:ton, then you can use the app and then
make decisions based on your own opinion,
644
:which doesn't work as a product manager.
645
:But I think it's also really
important to use, especially if you're
646
:interviewing for product is to use the
product in some way, shape, or form.
647
:Sometimes, obviously that's not possible.
648
:If it's like an enterprise software
or something, you need a business
649
:account, but if you can create
a account and use the thing.
650
:I think it's super valuable and so in
the middle of the interview, I think
651
:1 of the questions was, have you ever
led a project where you've like, been
652
:in charge of finding the manufacturer
and and getting quotes and et cetera?
653
:And I said, yeah, actually, um,
I'm doing something similar.
654
:It's it's not necessarily,
um, a manufacturing process.
655
:It's a fabrication process,
but also I used on a.
656
:Past project.
657
:I use the Xometry app to buy a part and
we ended up not buying the part from
658
:Xometry and I was like, that's just like.
659
:One, but like, I'd, I'd be happy to
share my input as to why we didn't buy.
660
:And both the, the head of product
and the CTO were like, oh yes, yes.
661
:Tell us more . So, so I then proceeded
to like basically point out all the
662
:negative things that I found in the app.
663
:Um, and I was like, this
is, this is terrible idea.
664
:What am I doing?
665
:Come in here, trash the product, . And
so I think that like, that was
666
:actually, you know, I feel like
in, in hindsight, I wanna say I
667
:heard that like until that point.
668
:I was not necessarily
going to get the job.
669
:So my new advice in interviewing
for product is to just use the
670
:product and tell them all the
things you would change about it.
671
:But I guess that gets to that
question about, like, or what
672
:did you, what did you like?
673
:And what would you change?
674
:So, um, because of that conversation,
I think I was placed on the, um.
675
:The instant quoting engine,
I was the product manager for
676
:the instant quoting engine.
677
:Um, and that was the customer facing
platform that allowed engineers to
678
:upload and and procurement officers, um,
purchasers, anybody that needed to buy a.
679
:A physical part using a CAD model would
create an account, log in and upload to
680
:this platform, change the requirements
based on the needs of the part and
681
:then go to checkout and purchase.
682
:And so I became the product
manager of that product.
683
:And then I don't know what it was.
684
:Except that, you know, a lot of times
product management teams, um, and
685
:startup structures are pretty flat.
686
:And so you, you might have like, um,
somebody leading product and then just
687
:a bunch of product managers underneath.
688
:And that's the way I
think I works really well.
689
:And I think that's the way it should be.
690
:But at the same time.
691
:Um, the one cool thing about startups
is like, a lot of times job titles are
692
:just sort of like nefarious, you know,
maybe the pay is good at a startup,
693
:but they can give you a job title.
694
:Um, and I think I had heard something
like, you know, if you're not working
695
:with military folks, um, you know, they,
a lot of times in certain roles, they
696
:move on after 2 years, like they can never
work the same job for more than 2 years.
697
:And that's, I think that's
part of the government's, um.
698
:Yeah, methodology, but basically,
you know, I'd heard something like if
699
:you're not progressing in, uh, in your
role every year, every two years or
700
:something, then you're, you're stagnating.
701
:Um, we didn't have any of
these like other roles.
702
:And so I think when, when, uh, you know,
I was loving working at Xometry, I will,
703
:I was Having a ton of fun and I wanted
as much sort of impact as possible.
704
:And so I think after a while, I, I
think I came to you and I basically
705
:presented this, um, document.
706
:I think actually the, the base
of the document was something
707
:my wife gave me from a previous
conversation she had, where she
708
:was asking for more responsibility.
709
:And, uh, I have to brush off
the dust on that thing, but I
710
:believe it was a letter to you.
711
:Then.
712
:Um, and it ends with I'm interested
in taking more responsibility.
713
:Um, if let me know your thoughts and if
you'd be willing to support that before
714
:you do anything else, um, if you, if you,
if you would be interested in talking
715
:to me about it, that'd be really cool.
716
:I think you said, sure.
717
:I said, well, I haven't had a chance
to get all my thoughts together, but
718
:I'll follow up in a couple of days.
719
:Uh, with what I'm taking and then
the follow up was was a letter.
720
:It was the proposed job description.
721
:It was, um, then a list of things that I
had accomplished over the past 12 months.
722
:And then my approach to how I would,
I would take on this new role.
723
:Um, and so I was.
724
:Promoted at the time to this
new role called a senior product
725
:manager, um, which existed elsewhere.
726
:It just didn't exist at the time.
727
:Um, and then similar.
728
:Um, I think.
729
:A little later, um, I, you know, once
again, just like, just like I did as
730
:a mechanical engineer, it had sort
of free products at the time, which
731
:is basically like the instant coding
engine, the, the internal system
732
:that managed all the orders and then
the external job board that the.
733
:Manufacturers were using and
anything that we did on the instant
734
:quoting engine and I think this
is an important skill for product
735
:managers in mechanical engineering.
736
:They call it a systems engineer.
737
:And it's like, if you change
something on the, uh, customer
738
:facing app, how does that percolate?
739
:Or propagate through
the rest of the system.
740
:And so a lot of times I would work with
the ERP team and then the job board team
741
:to make sure that the things that we
were doing on the instant coding engine
742
:propagated through the whole system.
743
:And I think later on, we
would say, no, the, like, the
744
:responsibility of integrating
that falls on the different teams.
745
:And then that was, you know, an
interesting exercise to try to coordinate
746
:a single product across multiple
product teams and multiple disciplines.
747
:But, um, I, I was interested in, you
know, all of these different platforms.
748
:I loved the partner platform.
749
:I think we called it the
job board at the time.
750
:Um, and I was interested in
helping out there if I could.
751
:Um, and then we started
working on a new product.
752
:Um.
753
:Actually, I guess, additional to the
Instant Coding Engine, we had CAD add
754
:ons for SolidWorks and then eventually
we had one for Inventor, which is the
755
:platform I used as a mechanical engineer.
756
:Um, and so we had these like
multiple apps, uh, multiple add ons.
757
:Kind
758
:Becca Moran: of
759
:Hunter Guerin: like integration.
760
:Yeah, it was like, how can an
engineer use Xometry's platform
761
:within their CAD software?
762
:And so I manage those as well.
763
:And so, um, we were sort of growing
our product suite on the customer side.
764
:And, um, you know, I, I, at the
time I was very interested in
765
:getting management experience.
766
:That was something I was sort of.
767
:Obsessed with from like day one.
768
:The thing about actually talking
to my brother, the data scientist
769
:about product management, and he's
like, product management school,
770
:because you get to manage, but
you don't have to manage people.
771
:Um, I think I later learned what
he actually meant by that, but
772
:I kept wanting to manage people.
773
:And so I was trying to sort of figure
out how I could maybe manage multiple
774
:products with product managers, um,
who managed the product, but then
775
:I was sort of the system level.
776
:Person and those kind of rolled up and
so I ended up, um, finishing as a group
777
:product manager, which is exactly that
role of a couple different things.
778
:But yeah, that's so yeah,
779
:Becca Moran: that's awesome.
780
:And I think it kind of
illustrates just how the needs
781
:of an organization can change.
782
:Right?
783
:So, like, when you join
Xometry, I think we were.
784
:It was like right before we
closed our series a, um, we
785
:were maybe 40 or 50 employees.
786
:Um, and to your point, like as these
companies grow and as the products grow,
787
:there's just a level of complexity.
788
:And I think that creates.
789
:A lot of interesting opportunities for
product people and, and, um, you know,
790
:as someone who can kind of grow with the
company and with the product itself, um,
791
:I think it's really smart, you know, the
way you kind of zeroed in on like, Hey, I,
792
:I like this kind of systems thinking and,
and looking across our entire platform
793
:and, Understanding the interconnectedness
and and thinking about it holistically,
794
:and how can I leverage that in the role?
795
:Um, you know, I think that's a
common need that emerges as a lot of
796
:these companies grow and become more
797
:Hunter Guerin: complex.
798
:Yeah, and, um, I think that that story
sort of reminded me of something actually
799
:just at this exercise a couple days ago.
800
:It's called the 10 10 10 exercise.
801
:Um, and the, the, the, the framing
of why I'm talking about this story
802
:is that one of the things I learned
through this process is the importance
803
:of, you know, if you're going to sort
of present a, a new role for yourself
804
:to an organization, you have to really
think about how it improves the company.
805
:Like, nobody really wants to care
that you want more responsibility.
806
:Right.
807
:If we do this, then it
simplifies your life.
808
:Whoever your boss is, it simplifies your
life and it's better for the company
809
:because X, Y, and Z and, you know, the,
the, it's difficult to go up to somebody
810
:and say, hey, I want more responsibility.
811
:I want a new job title.
812
:I want to continue to move up.
813
:And so anytime you have a
difficult conversation looming,
814
:you could do this exercise.
815
:The 10, 10, 10 exercise.
816
:And it is, if I have this conversation
or I do this thing, I'm thinking of, how
817
:am I going to feel in the next 10 hours?
818
:A lot of times it's like nervous, scared,
anxious, excited, proud of myself, etc.
819
:Then how am I going to
feel in the next 10 months?
820
:So basically a year.
821
:And then how am I going to
feel in the next 10 years?
822
:And I didn't do it at the time for
these conversations, but the really
823
:cool thing about that exercise is that
you, you basically say your feelings
824
:and other, other things, how's,
how's it going to affect my family?
825
:How's it going to affect my health and
whatever else you're interested in.
826
:And you give it basically a plus or
minus, and you can kind of quickly see
827
:how, how this decision is either likely
really going to help you in the long
828
:term, or it's not, or this exercise
doesn't actually answer your question.
829
:So maybe you need more information before
having the conversation or whatever, but
830
:once you have that, it gives you this
road map to having that conversation
831
:and in thinking about this example.
832
:You know, again, we didn't necessarily
have this conversation, but if
833
:you're going, like, if I'm, if I'm
coming to you, I think that document
834
:helped, but it's like, hey, I think,
uh, you know, I'm loving life here.
835
:I want more responsibility.
836
:I want to keep learning and growing, but
also, um, if, you know, if I do this, then
837
:that we're able to have effectively more
product managers without the team growing.
838
:So, you know, the, the budget
doesn't have to change.
839
:Um, because if I'm willing to take on
three different products, um, and I
840
:think I can handle it doing X, Y, and Z.
841
:So the, you know, we can grow our
whatever without necessarily growing
842
:the team or whatever the case cases.
843
:It's a good, it's a good way to
walk through that conversation.
844
:Becca Moran: Yeah, I, I remember that
document and I feel like I have, um,
845
:wanted to like refer back to it at times
to like help give guidance to other
846
:people that I've worked with on like,
Hey, if you, you know, want to move
847
:up within the organization, like this
is a good kind of framework to use.
848
:And I, I do think that being
proactive, thinking about what the
849
:business needs, I think is huge.
850
:A lot of people, I think.
851
:Do you get a little too caught up
in like, well, what do I want to do?
852
:And what you want is to find the
overlap of like, what do you want to do?
853
:And what does the
organization actually need?
854
:And that's the sweet spot.
855
:Hunter Guerin: Yeah.
856
:And also the last thing on that is when
you're talking to your boss or, you know,
857
:sort of learn this with any negotiation
is, um, you want the other person to feel.
858
:Involved and like sort
of the hero of the story.
859
:So like a good framing of the question
is, Hey, I'm interested in X, Y, and Z.
860
:Is this something you'd be
willing to talk to me about?
861
:And, or is this something you'd
be willing to like help me with?
862
:And then you go through the process.
863
:Okay.
864
:How are we going?
865
:How are we going to present this
to the team or to management?
866
:And then all of a sudden your
boss becomes the, we, and
867
:potentially the hero of the story.
868
:And it's more about them, you know,
helping you than it is about you asking
869
:for some promotion or, or whatnot.
870
:So, uh, yeah, trying to, trying to
get other people on board before you
871
:even come out with this, like, here's
my new job and here's the X, Y, Z, a
872
:conversation you're even willing to
have and get the buy in help me with.
873
:Yeah, so, yeah,
874
:Becca Moran: totally agree.
875
:Um, well, I love that.
876
:I love reflecting back kind of on
that journey that you had at Dometry
877
:and the success you had there.
878
:Um, I know we're, we're running a
little bit long, but I would like
879
:to make sure that we spend a little
bit of time talking about your
880
:transition into, I find it funny to
say becoming an entrepreneur because I.
881
:Think that you've been an
entrepreneur all along, right?
882
:That's clear from how I
think you think about things.
883
:And there's a thread of that
throughout this entire story.
884
:But, um, you know, I would love if you
could share a little bit of the, uh, kind
885
:of quick story of how you decided to.
886
:You know, what sparked the idea for
LLAMAWOOD and how you decided to kind
887
:of take the leap and, and build this
business that you've been building
888
:for what, last two and a half years, a
889
:Hunter Guerin: little over two years.
890
:Um, so I loved the Xometry
sort of model, um, because.
891
:The, the, the benefit that you could bring
to a marketplace, the efficiency you could
892
:bring to a marketplace by connecting a
buyer with a seller and then managing the
893
:transaction and fulfillment all within
a platform, it's, it's, it just was.
894
:I, you know, like, say it was genius.
895
:Um, I actually, like, would ask Randy,
like, how did you think of this?
896
:This is so smart.
897
:Um, and I remember feeling like, man,
if somebody, like, if Randy can come
898
:up with this idea, um, apparently off
the cuff, no, that's not actually how
899
:it happened, but, I was like, who am
I to, like, Think of, I can start a
900
:business because this idea is so beyond
anything I would have ever imagined.
901
:And, uh, I was just so impressed with
it, but because of the value that it
902
:brought the partner network, I remember
specifically this event that happened.
903
:Um, I don't remember the year, but
a hurricane or tornado hit Texas, I
904
:believe, and it just like demolished
one of our suppliers and a couple
905
:of things Xometry was able to do.
906
:There's number one is all of
the jobs that had been matched.
907
:That supplier got, were
able to get routed out.
908
:And so the, the customers
ended up getting their parts.
909
:And then I believe we did a
GoFundMe campaign for that, uh, that
910
:partner and every other partner in
the network, like, um, you know,
911
:contributed to the rebuilding of this.
912
:And that was the moment where I was
like, Oh, this is so cool because not
913
:only is this platform bringing jobs
to this network, but it's also like
914
:created this giant manufacturing family.
915
:Um, and that's a little bit
like altruistic, but I just was.
916
:With that sort of like, I want to start
a company mindset, I kept applying this
917
:idea to a bunch of different industries.
918
:And that is how do you connect
buyers again through a platform to
919
:a distributed network of sellers
who can provide capacity on demand,
920
:elastic capacity, which is really
important because certain things get.
921
:In high demand at some points and
low demand and other points, uh,
922
:I can think of one firewood, um,
but, uh, so I thought, well, we
923
:could, I could start a landscape
business with a network of sellers.
924
:I could, what about, um, home building?
925
:Um, and then I had heard this somewhere.
926
:Um, I often attribute
it to the wrong person.
927
:So I'll just.
928
:Is that if when you think about starting
a business, look at your credit card
929
:statement and figure out where you spend
a disproportionate amount of your income.
930
:And so I was doing that and I never
really like highlighted anything as.
931
:Oh, this is the thing.
932
:Um, and it was mortgage and dining out.
933
:And I think that that disproportionate.
934
:No, because a lot of people spend a lot
of money on mortgage and dining out.
935
:Um, but this, this thing about
I, everywhere I went, every house
936
:that I went into, whether it was my
house or somebody else's, I would.
937
:Pay whatever I needed to pay
to make sure I could have wood
938
:burning fires inside and outside.
939
:Um, and so I'd spent a lot of
money on all things related to
940
:firewood, um, and then fires.
941
:And so that sort of helped me realize
that, like, it's got to be something
942
:about fire and then we lived in D.
943
:C.
944
:with.
945
:Neighbors of you, Becca.
946
:And then in:COVID, we decided to move to Richmond
947
:and, um, we got to Richmond and it was.
948
:It was, we moved in July of:
949
:And so the fall is coming up
and I want to buy firewood.
950
:I just know that Richmond's gonna,
it's going to be way easier to buy
951
:firewood in Richmond than it was in DC.
952
:And I went through the process, the
standard process of finding a guy,
953
:texting him, they tell you it's seasoned,
they come over, they drop it off.
954
:Um, You have to pay them in cash.
955
:This guy actually took Venmo, but
like, as he was leaving, I Venmoed him.
956
:And then you have to put in the last
four digits of their phone number.
957
:I'm like, wait, um, I have,
I have since mailed checks.
958
:I mean, firewood buying firewood is
it was, I just hoped it was better
959
:in Richmond than it was in DC.
960
:And sure enough, it was
like the exact same thing.
961
:And I think it was in that moment when
that delivery sort of was botched and
962
:the wood was wet and it was too big.
963
:I needed to split it with
an axe, which is a pain.
964
:I think I had a, yeah, I had like a
1 and a half year old at the time.
965
:I didn't, I was anytime they
were, they were not in my arms.
966
:I wanted to be like, sitting
on a couch or something.
967
:So, um.
968
:I said, that's it, I am going to, what
could I build a network of firewood
969
:sellers and build a platform that
connected buyers with that network?
970
:And then really the, the key there
is that you then use technology to
971
:manage the quality of the seller.
972
:And since, since this idea of Xometry
and, and my business is that it's a
973
:managed marketplace, it, it connects.
974
:The orders with the sellers that are
most qualified to perform the delivery.
975
:And 1 of the things that goes
into that is this is the rating
976
:based on their past performance.
977
:And so the cream rises to the top.
978
:Eventually, you only start delivery,
sending jobs to the best suppliers.
979
:Um, and so I can provide a, like, a
quality standard and, um, a consistency
980
:to firewood delivery that, like, in my
experience, which was buying firewood and.
981
:Across 5 different states, um, uh, that
consistency was really hard to find and,
982
:um, reliability was really hard to find.
983
:So that's kind of how it sparked
the, uh, the, the company I
984
:started, which is called Lama wood.
985
:That's
986
:Becca Moran: awesome.
987
:And I'm sure, uh, hopefully there'll be
an opportunity to do a whole episode in
988
:and of itself on the lava wood story.
989
:But the 1 question.
990
:Um, I wanted to ask just kind
of to to close things out is.
991
:And kind of bring it back to our
conversation about, um, your career in
992
:product, like what product experience
do you feel like helped you feel
993
:confident in starting your own business?
994
:Like what are you thankful that
you learned as a product manager
995
:that you've Been able to put into
use starting your own business.
996
:Hunter Guerin: Um, I think the biggest
thing is that as a product person, again,
997
:regardless of the product you manage, um,
you, you, you sort of necessitates the
998
:system level thinking to where you have
to learn about how your product impacts.
999
:Every aspect of the business,
marketing, sales, operations,
::
finance, admin, it doesn't matter.
::
You're probably talking to one of those.
::
I think I had, I think like at one
point, every person on the C suite was a
::
stakeholder of the Instant Quoting Engine.
::
And so you get a, especially if you
go, if you do product to a small
::
company or startup, you're going to
get a ton of experience really fast.
::
But now that I've started a business,
um, I think the 2 critical things,
::
especially early on, why Combinator
says this, and I think many others is
::
that as a founder or CEO of a company
early on, the 2 things that you need to
::
focus on, because there's a million, 2
things, building the product and selling.
::
So you have to learn how to build
and you have to learn how to sell.
::
And basically both, both of those
things is the like quintessential
::
job requirement of a product manager.
::
You have to figure out
what the customers want.
::
Come up with the vision for how that
is going to be built and then you
::
have to sell it to all these people.
::
Um, because, you know, sometimes,
uh, what operations wants sales, you
::
know, operations wants, you know,
a smoother flow sales wants more.
::
Orders marketing wants more sessions,
um, and and top of funnel customers
::
landing on the site or whatever.
::
So, um, you have to negotiate and and work
with all these different disciplines to
::
to sell this vision of a greater future.
::
Um, and so I think that.
::
Being able to build something and sell it
sort of at the same time, you know, that
::
whole, like jump out of a plane without
a parachute and get out on the way down.
::
Um, it kind of happens.
::
And then you've touched on it
too, is like this, a huge thing.
::
Like you just can't build a business
without talking to customers and
::
understanding what they truly want.
::
Um, because I think what's the saying
that like 80 percent of products that
::
get launched, don't, don't get used.
::
So.
::
You can, you can think of a million
features for an app, but you know, in
::
order to know which one you need to
build next, you have to talk to a lot
::
of people, um, whether you're looking at
like, whether the, the talking is looking
::
over user data, um, or actually speaking
with the internal team, talking to the
::
external customer, um, but picking up the
phone and calling customers constantly.
::
Um, that too is.
::
Is, um, you know, a huge necessity
as a product manager and even
::
more so as you're trying to build
something, um, and selling it.
::
So you learn as a product manager,
you learn how to build and sell.
::
And those are the two biggest skills.
::
And actually they say that
selling is harder than building.
::
So if you have to be good at one
of them, get good at selling.
::
Yeah.
::
So, um, you get a lot of
practice with that as a product.
::
Yeah.
::
Becca Moran: It's such a good point.
::
And I think it's sometimes, uh, an
element of the product role that At
::
least from personal experience, I would
say you can kind of resent, right?
::
Like sometimes you're just
like, I have this idea.
::
Why doesn't everybody just
like go along with it?
::
Right.
::
Like this is my job to do this stuff.
::
Like,
::
Hunter Guerin: um, something you said,
I don't know if you remember saying
::
it, but I laugh at it all the time.
::
I think about it constantly.
::
Is, uh, you said that the job of
a product manager is to gently
::
disappoint people all day long.
::
It
::
Becca Moran: is like, you have to just
get so comfortable with telling people
::
no, or just kind of like redirecting
them to different ideas or Um, yes, uh,
::
I, I stand by that statement, but yeah,
the sales part is hard, um, and it can
::
be hard, especially depending on kind of
the dynamics in the organization in which
::
you're working, where, um, you can be
faced with a lot of strong opinions and.
::
Um, sometimes it's, it's hard to convince
people of, of an idea that you feel
::
confident about, but, um, to your point,
like, I, I hope that anyone who is
::
experiencing that and maybe frustrated by
that in their product roles, um, tries to
::
remember that it is such a valuable skill,
no matter what you do in your career.
::
Um, and, um, those character, so, um,
all right, well, I'm going to shorten
::
our rapid fire wrap up questions to
just one, um, which I, I am curious
::
to hear your answer cause I feel
like you are a, um, you're always
::
kind of reading something interesting
or talking to someone interesting.
::
So.
::
My question for you is, what
book or person has been most
::
influential in your career?
::
In
::
Hunter Guerin: my career?
::
I had, I was ready for most recently,
but in my career I'm also ready
::
for, and uh, if you know me, you've
heard me say it, um, Tim Ferriss.
::
Becca Moran: I noticed you referenced
him, like, right at the beginning.
::
At
::
Hunter Guerin: least, yeah, I think my
brother says if you talk to Hunter and
::
he hasn't mentioned Tim Ferriss within
the first 10 seconds, it's an anomaly.
::
But, yeah, the 4 hour work
week is incredible read.
::
And, um, it, you know, I
think it's super popular.
::
So hopefully a lot of people reading
or hearing this, uh, have already read
::
it, but there's another thing is like,
I don't always evangelize that book.
::
Um, because the, the title for our work
week is sounds kind of cliche or whatever.
::
And that's not the point of the book.
::
The point of the book is to figure
out how to spend your time on
::
things that are uh, effective.
::
Rather than, you know,
trying to be efficient.
::
Um, I think like product management,
this is huge entrepreneurial, uh, paths.
::
This is huge.
::
Is that.
::
You can constantly have things
to do on your to do list.
::
And, and you know, one thing I've learned
is the more productive you are, the
::
more things that you put on your to do
list, like your to do list will never
::
get shorter, no matter what you try.
::
And I've tried it all.
::
And so figuring out the very few things
that you need to do, you know, the, the
::
critical few versus the trivial many.
::
And a major principle actually just
did an exercise like two days ago.
::
Um, from that book is, is really
the kind of two core principles
::
of the 80, 20 principle.
::
And then the, uh, Pareto principle,
a 20 is that 20 percent of your,
::
um, output comes from 80%, I'm
sorry, 80 percent of your output
::
comes from 20 percent of your input.
::
80 percent of your revenue comes
from 20 percent of your products,
::
20 percent of your customers.
::
I mean, you can apply it to everything.
::
And then, um, and then Parkinson's law
is that work will expand based on the.
::
Time that you a lot, so setting clear
short deadlines, you know, if you have a,
::
uh, if you're going to be interviewed on a
podcast and you want to, you know, figure
::
out how you might answer some questions,
like give yourself like whatever, a
::
short amount of time to do, to do it.
::
And then you'll, you'll get it
done because if you give yourself
::
a longer amount of time, you know,
the work will fill the time a lot.
::
Yeah.
::
Uh, and so that.
::
That along with his podcasts and, you
know, the last thing that I'll say about,
::
uh, these books is that it, they have
the four hour work week and other, other
::
books of his and other business books
that I've read, if they have a playbook,
::
like do this, then this, then this,
um, I, that really resonates with me.
::
And in the 4 hour work week, there are
these things called comfort challenges.
::
Uh, that you do, and I've
done every single 1 of them.
::
And like, I always say, anytime I do
anything from this book, like, almost
::
exactly what he says will happen happens.
::
I had a problem early on.
::
Actually, I still do where I miss.
::
I take some of his advice out of order.
::
And so if you read before our
work week, he has a structure
::
for how you are going to.
::
Uh, become more productive
and free yourself to work on
::
the things you love and do the
things you love outside of work.
::
And so the last thing in the
book is to take a sabbatical or
::
he calls them mini retirements.
::
And I was like, ah, I'll just
skip the first three steps and
::
go straight to the sabbatical.
::
Um, but you know, he actually pointed
out and in another book, he mentions
::
in that book multiple times, this
book called vagabonding by Rolf Potts.
::
And it's that, like, taking these
long trips, you learn some of these
::
skills you learn and these things
that you acquire through travel will
::
have a bigger impact on your life
than whatever you would have done at
::
work for that same seven week period.
::
Absolutely.
::
And so that single book has launched me
into a unlimited number of future books
::
that are then recommended by people he's
interviewed on the podcast and whatnot.
::
So, um, hands down, Tim Ferriss.
::
Becca Moran: No surprise there.
::
I love it.
::
Um, I'm going to start thinking
about scheduling a sabbatical.
::
Hunter Guerin: I actually, uh, I have, uh,
I I've written out sort of a outline of.
::
Of the process from coming up with
the idea all the way to pulling it
::
off so I can share that with you
and also the document with my that I
::
shared with you when I was asking for.
::
new role.
::
Um, I can share that with you as well.
::
That'd be
::
Becca Moran: awesome.
::
Yeah.
::
Thank you.
::
So much good stuff today.
::
Thank you so much, Hunter.
::
I appreciate your time and I always
love your thoughts, your perspective,
::
your attitude, your energy, all of it.
::
So thank you for being on the show.
::
It was really
::
Hunter Guerin: fun talking to you.
::
Thanks for having me.
::
I had a blast.
::
Um, and would be happy
to come back anytime.
::
Awesome.
::
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