How I Got Hired in Product with Rachel Rush

Tim Winkler: 00:00:00

Hey, listeners, Tim Winkler here, your host of The Pair Program. We've got exciting news introducing our latest partner series Beyond the Program. In these special episodes, we're passing the mic to some of our savvy former guests who are returning as guest hosts. Get ready for unfiltered conversations, exclusive insights, and unexpected twist as our alumni pair up with their chosen guest. Each guest host is a trailblazing expert in a unique technical field. Think data, product management, and engineering, all with a keen focus on startups and career growth. Look out for these bonus episodes dropping every other week, bridging the gaps between our traditional pair program episodes. So buckle up and get ready to venture beyond the program. Enjoy.

Becca Moran: 00:00:53

I'm Becca and this is how I got hired. How I Got Hired is a series of interviews where product managers share how they landed great product roles from PMs who made a career pivot into tech to those with more formal training. How I Got Hired captures the various ways to open doors into the world of product. We'll be talking about each guest's recipe for success, what motivated them to get into product, how they prepared for the interview, and what they did to set themselves apart. Today, my guest is Rachel Rush. Rachel is a senior product manager at Xometry, where she's worked for the last six years. Xometry is an online marketplace for custom manufacturing. Rachel, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. So Rachel and I worked together at Xometry, um, for about a year and a half. Um, so I had just been promoted to director of product when you joined, um, on the customer support team. I think that was the fall of 2017. And, um, then I left, um, to join curated a few months after you were promoted to the associate product manager role, which is what we'll be focusing on today. So excited to share that story with everybody. So, before we get into that, I thought it might be fun to do a little bit of an icebreaker. I know this is. Um, something that we used to do when new people would join our team. So I thought it would be fun to. To share with our audience, so, um, we're going to do 2 truths and a lie, um, and I can kick us off, um, with mine. Are you ready to guess? Yes. All right, let's see how good of a lie detector you are. All right. So, um, my. 3 things all go together, so, um, growing up, I had 2 of the following. A pet bird named Pigwidgeon, a dog that couldn't bark, a three legged hamster, which I'm gonna go with the bird. Good guess, but unfortunately you're wrong. Um, the lie there is that I did not have a dog that couldn't bark, although my best friend growing up did. Uh, she was the inspiration. Uh, I had both a bird named Pigwidgeon, uh, which is a Harry Potter reference for everyone. Uh, who's a fan and, um, yeah, I had a three legged hamster who, um, did not have three legs when, uh, I first got this hamster, but, um, hold one of those, like you remember the James Franco movie 127 hours where he has his arm caught in the rock and slices it off. My hamster basically did that, um, in his little hamster wheel, but it is a happy story. Like he lived for a long time after that. Um, it was a, you know, a survivor story. So, good. Yeah. Um, all right.

Rachel Rush: 00:04:11

What about you? All right, my turn. Um, okay. I've always wanted to run a marathon. Um, I'm a foodie and I love to travel.

Becca Moran: 00:04:28

I'm going to say the lie is that you have always wanted to run a marathon. Of course. I

Rachel Rush: 00:04:35

greatly just like exercise on every level.

Becca Moran: 00:04:39

Um, I share that. Well, I like exercise. The idea of running a marathon to me is just, I mean, props to those who do it. It's just not anything that has ever, um,

Rachel Rush: 00:04:52

I get very bored when I try to go running and I usually quit. Like, before I get physically tired because I'm mentally not

Becca Moran: 00:05:00

able to, yes, yes, I completely understand that. Um, I said recently that I think anyone who runs more than one marathon is crazy. Cause I'm like, okay, you got the points, check the box, good for you. Um, why run more than one? And then people that run ultra marathons, like, don't even talk to me, I just don't understand. Yeah. Um. Cool. All right. Well, let's, uh, let's get into your story. So, um, as I mentioned, the, the story we're going to talk about today is really kind of how you got your start at Xometry. Um, so let's start at the beginning. Um, maybe kind of my first question to you is was your customer support role at Xometry, was that like your first real job or did you have other positions before that?

Rachel Rush: 00:05:58

No, it was not my first real job. Um, so I, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. Um, yeah, for a very long time. Um, so I worked, um, I worked a lot of jobs, um, Macy's. I worked for a Wells Fargo home mortgage for a while. Um, and I guess I was trying different things out. Because I was still waiting to find that passion that would make you want to have a full career in something. Um, so I, I found Xometry actually, I, it was through Indeed. com. And I was like, well, this sounds like an interesting company. And so I applied and yeah, I was almost, it was kind of an accident,

Becca Moran: 00:06:40

I guess you could say. That's awesome. Um, and I guess to kind of to, to set the scene. So at that time, Dometri was, I think probably something like 70 ish employees. Um, recently closed our series be, um, so pretty, like, so relatively early stage. Um, do you remember at that point? Like, was the idea of working for a startup like. Was that a factor? You're like, Oh, this is interesting. I want to go work for a startup or you're like, this is just a job that sounds interesting. And yeah, um,

Rachel Rush: 00:07:24

you know, I don't think it really was a factor because I don't really think I understood what it meant before I started. Um, I think I just thought that this sounded like a cool job. That was different than what I had done before. Um, And that, yeah, I wanted, I wanted to give it a try. I didn't really understand fully, I think, what startup meant until after I'd already started working

Becca Moran: 00:07:50

in Xometry. Yeah, it's funny because, um, so before Xometry, I was with Politico and, um, we always used to say that, like, oh, so we, I worked for the subscription team within Politico, which, um, was created maybe like five years in or so to Politico's business. Um, and we always used to say like, oh, we were like a startup, like kind of like even a startup within the company. And in a lot of ways, like culture wise, it really did feel like a startup is very scrappy, like we were kind of figuring everything out for the first time. Um, and I actually ended up at Xometry because my former, um, boss from Politico, Scott Rothrock, um, joined Xometry and said, Hey, you should come work here. And, um, it was the same kind of thing. Like, I wasn't thinking like, oh, I want to go get a, a real startup job. It was just kind of like, this is a cool opportunity. And I really trusted Scott and his opinion and, you know, I didn't know how to evaluate, like. Is this startup likely to be successful or not? Like, but I, I, like I said, I trusted Scott and I felt like he was a good judge of that and knew kind of what to look for and could see that it was a good opportunity. And I just jumped in from there. So it's, um, it's always interesting. Anytime I talk to people that are like interested in working for startups specifically. Because, yeah, I just kind of jumped into it, not even knowing, like, really what that would mean.

Rachel Rush: 00:09:33

Yeah, I don't think it would have occurred to me to look for jobs specifically within startups before having worked in

Becca Moran: 00:09:40

one. Yeah, yeah. And that's something I'd like to come back to, kind of that journey from this, you know, Series B to post IPO, because I think that's, um, You've seen a lot of different phases of, of Xometry. So we'll come back to that, but, um, okay. So Xometry is a, uh, early stage startup. You kind of applied based on this Indeed posting on a bit of a whim. And what was, what was the first role that you applied for and what was the initial job you were doing for Xometry?

Rachel Rush: 00:10:16

Yeah. So, um, I actually got hired as a customer success. I think we were called advocates. Um, It was kind of like a customer service position. If you take into account, there wasn't really a customer service department at the time. So, um, I walked in and they were like, we really need somebody to help answer questions and get on the phone and, you know, kind of just like develop things. And I went in and I just, yeah, I, I sat in this room with a lot of really smart engineers and I started picking up phone calls and. Basically putting them all on hold and then turning to the person next to me and being like, what does this mean? Um, because we didn't have any training materials at the time. But then eventually just like, yeah, picked it up and. And yeah, and eventually it was me and, um, two other people that essentially started the customer service department and started putting in some processes. And, um, I think within 6 or 7 months after that, we had grown to like a team of maybe a 15. Um, and that that was when I really got into it. I was like, oh, I'm not just working. I'm building something.

Becca Moran: 00:11:41

Yeah. Yeah, and that's a super exciting phase to be a part of, too. And to me, that's what makes startup roles so enticing is that feeling of like, this isn't just a job. Like, I am actually creating something meaningful. Um, and just how rewarding that experience can be, um, things were like, you might find out years in the future that like, oh, people are still. Following this process that you put in place or using this tool that you help build or whatever is a pretty rewarding thing. Um, and did you have any sort of, like, I don't know, education that was relevant to the role or what, like, any sort of background that that helped or really it was a lot of learn by fire. No,

Rachel Rush: 00:12:37

it really was learned by fire. I think the thing that would have been most helpful is something in maybe mechanical engineering. Sure. Um, but I do absolutely nothing about that topic.

Becca Moran: 00:12:51

Yeah. Um, but such a great opportunity to learn. I know, you know, I came in the same way. I never in my life had thought about really how anything was made. Um, after working at Xometry for a little while, like, you kind of get into this mode where you're like, oh, like, what's this, you know, how is this thing made? Like, everything you look at, you're like, was that injection molded? Uh, it's kind of addicting, but, um, that's really cool. And so. Um, and that was to your point, I think a really kind of explosive time of growth at the company. Um, uh, I remember, uh, so Xometry acquired, uh, a company called MakeTime in July of 2018. And so we had a bunch of new folks on the team and, um, you know, our sales were really growing. And so I, you know, having a bigger customer service team, I think was an essential part of just. Responding to that kind of growth. Um, so what, what happened after that? What was the next role that you moved into? Uh, software

Rachel Rush: 00:14:05

administrator. So we decided we needed a new ERP system. Um, and I had made it pretty clear from the beginning that I was Interested in software, I was taking computer science classes on the side and, you know, I, I would really like to maybe join the software team at 1 point. And so. Because I had so much experience, um, working with the current ERP system, and I knew a lot about zometry processes, I think, in a way that not a lot of people in the software team did. Um, they asked me to come in and help set up the new ERP. Um, which was really exciting. And I think that was really my first software job. Um, so that, yeah, that's when I got the chance to

Becca Moran: 00:14:57

move over. Yeah, it's interesting, um, again, just kind of relating to my own experience. So I initially at Politico, I was in a sales role and. My version of that was, you know, a lot of the elements of the sales role were not really my thing, like making cold calls made me very nervous. And, um, you know, but I kind of got through it and it builds character. Um, but I really kind of gravitated towards. Using Salesforce, I just like, I, it was something that I realized not a lot of other people, uh, on the team at the time, particularly passionate about to say that was passionate about might be an extreme, but, you know, to me, I was like, how can we really leverage this software to the sales team run more effectively? And how can we set up reporting? And how can we start to streamline some of the things that we do using this technology? And so I just really started to kind of lean into that. And, um, I, I will credit that with, like, being the 1st step towards working in tech. Um, and, you know, that kind of led to, I started basically, like, project managing Salesforce, like, integration and implementation type activities. And again, still a world away from like working with our engineering team, but I think it gave me enough of a, uh, a flavor to spark an interest and then help start to kind of connect me with some people in the company and be able to like inch a little bit closer to that world. And so, um, yeah, I think the way that you really immersed yourself in our ERP, which, you know, was a homegrown tool, which was. And I'm sure many folks that work in tech companies have this experience of, um, and we do this talk about this hyper curated all the time. Like, you have the. External facing product, which, you know, a lot of thought goes into making sure that the UI is really nice and it's, um, you know, really user friendly. And then anytime you're, you're also responsible for building kind of like a back end back office tool that people use, like our ERP, which is. What was managing all of the orders coming in and all of that. Um, I guess the nice way to put it would be to say that maybe we cut some corners in terms of how we set that up. So, um, you were really immersed in that and and built a level of expertise on just how that tool worked and didn't work and. Um, went from there, so that's awesome. Um, all right. Well, what, what came after that? What was kind of the, the progression, uh, as you were in that role and, and what were some of the things that you were responsible for in that position kind of day to day? Um,

Rachel Rush: 00:18:10

so we had purchased an off of the shelf ERP system. So I was asked to basically, um, go through and evaluate it and see. What it had that we could use and what it didn't have that we needed to build into it. Um, so it was really responsible, just making sure that it could do what we needed it to do. Um, it didn't work out that great because I determined that it didn't do a lot of what we needed it to do. Um, and we eventually realized that it would cost more to build off of the off of the shelf tool than it would to just fix our existing ERP. Yeah. So we, uh, we didn't actually go through with it, but that was definitely a learning experience.

Becca Moran: 00:18:55

Yeah. Yeah. And I remember that too. It was, um, You know, something I think that was very well intentioned this idea that, like, oh, you know, in theory, we're doing a lot of things that, um, you know, there are 3rd party tools that are built to manage these types of processes. But I think the reality at the time was that our homegrown ERP was, like, the heart of our. Platform and it was really hard. Like I remember having a conversation one time, um, describing it as like, if, if our software was a body, like the ERP was the torso, how are we replacing the torso? Um, so yeah, that's, that's a real learning experience. So, um, so from there you moved into this associate product role. So, um, I remember a little bit about, um, kind of that transition, but I would love for you to share, um, how that came about and kind of what sparked your interest and, and got you thinking kind of going from wanting to be involved in the tech to, like, specifically the, the product role and product piece of it. Yeah, so.

Rachel Rush: 00:20:17

At the time, I thought I wanted to be a developer, um, so after we decided not to go with the off the shelf ERP, um, I set up an internal system to allow, uh, bug reports, basically, and feature requests from the operations team because I, I understood, at least in our company at that time, how separate the two departments seemed. There wasn't a lot of connection, um, and communication between our software team and our operations team. And I, I thought that was a huge problem, um, basically the lack of understanding of what was going on, um, on either side of the fence. So, 1 of the steps I took to try to fix that was basically create this system. For the operations team could just provide feedback to the software team as well as submit bug reports, and I kind of got my feet wet and development world. I got a chance to solve a lot of the bugs that came in, uh, triage a lot of the requests, um, help sort of talk them through with a lot of the product managers, um, who I got to know pretty well through that process. And then at some point, um, this was after the merge with make time. There was a new product in development and. I think it might have been you who asked me to sit in on a meeting to determine what needed to be done to make this work with our ops team. Maybe that was it. Um, and I started coming up with basically a list of requirements of like, this is absolutely what like the customer service team needs to know how to do in order for this to work. And this is, you know, basically came up with a list of requirements and I, I gave them to the product manager in charge. Um, And then helped him create like training materials for the ops team. And then shortly after that, um, my boss pulled me aside and he was like, I almost don't want to tell you this, but there's a product manager position opening up. And your name has come up in discussions. And if you wanted to, I think you should apply. Um, and so that was really my first like, huh? Like. I got a little bit of experience and I was like, Oh, this is really interesting. Like I'm actually helping decide what to build and like having real input and not just, you know, taking tickets and executing on them. And so I, I applied and I think I did an interview with you and maybe a couple of the other PMs. And, uh, got the got the associate position.

Becca Moran: 00:22:54

Love it. Yeah, I, I think it's, um, you know, as I reflect back, um, having the ability to take. Someone from within the company and move them into a product role was. Um, just such an incredible opportunity. I, you know, I think there's a lot of, there's a learning curve in terms of figuring out the business and especially the part of the business that you knew really well. Um, and, you know, I think that for sure. Gave you a great advantage and kind of making that transition and. I think part of it, too, is like, when you see somebody who isn't in a product role, but they're doing lots of product D things and thinking about things with a product mindset. Um, to me, it's like. It's very clear when it's like, okay, this person obviously has potential. And, um, it can be a lot lower. Risk, I think, in a lot of ways, um, and, you know. Yeah. Having the ability to have an associate product role where you're saying, okay, and, you know, this person doesn't have product experience, but, um, this is a great opportunity to learn that on the job. And, um, we were in a very fortunate position at the time where. We had some great folks that you could learn from, right? Hunter and Alex and, um, and others, um, who could really. You know, teach you the product things that you didn't know and have that pair really nicely with the business experience that you already had. So I'll

Rachel Rush: 00:24:48

always be grateful for that. When I think back on that time, I think about how scared I was and how I was like, I have absolutely no idea how to do this job. I've had no training. And like, I went to you guys and you all basically agreed to like mentor me together and basically taught me what I didn't know. And I don't. I think I'd still be here, um, in this position if you guys hadn't kind of taken me under your wing and said, like, it's okay, like... You know, the stuff that you're good at will help you with the rest. Um, so yeah, we were really like a, a team, um,

Becca Moran: 00:25:26

which was a great group. And, you know, I think that that's, I would imagine you could talk to the vast majority of people in product roles and they would tell you their first product role. They're sitting there thinking, I have no idea what I'm doing. Right. Cause, um, you know, this is changing, but there's not a lot of people that. Like, get any sort of education or kind of formal training in it. And so there's no

Rachel Rush: 00:25:53

degree of, like, product management bachelors. It's just not a thing.

Becca Moran: 00:25:58

Right? Um, so. Yeah, I think, like, that's a shared experience of many people in product roles. And when you're in it, you're like, Oh, my God, like, how could this be possible that I could, like, be qualified for this position when I, like, haven't done it? And there's so much to learn. But, um, you know, I think it, it sometimes takes a little bit of a leap of faith and You know, as long as you have a good group around you, that's supporting your growth and helping you learn. That's a huge part of it. So, um, kind of stepping back and reflecting on that. Do you have any advice for folks that might be in a similar position? Like anyone who. Is that an organization and they're not in a product role, they'd like to transition into one, whether that's within their own company or, or maybe looking elsewhere. What would you tell somebody like that? That's looking to make a transition into product.

Rachel Rush: 00:27:05

Yeah, I mean, I think there's 2 things that really helped me. The 1st was, I was very, I tried to be very honest and open about what I wanted. Um, when I was in ops, I said, I would love to move into software. When I was in software, I was like. Oh, product seems interesting. Let me go talk to those people. And I was very fortunate to have people around me that were willing to talk to me about their roles. Um, but, you know, just telling people like you're interested in this, even if there's not an open position available, um, you know, just putting that seed, I guess, in their heads. Like maybe one day when a position's available, they will think of you. The other thing that helped me, I think, is just being willing to take on things. That were not in my job description, I guess, um, yeah, I did a lot of like mini projects and I helped out on things that I wasn't necessarily hired to help out on, but gave me great experience and great insight into these other parts of the company. Um, and kind of prepared me and showed others, you know, what I was capable of. Um, and yeah, it's like a lot of extra effort and quite honestly, over time, but for my case, it, um, it paid off. And great

Becca Moran: 00:28:17

exposure, I think, right? Like to other people in other roles, like, I think that's something, um, I can relate to as well, going back to the experience that I had at, at Politico when I started doing this Salesforce stuff. Um, at 1 point, I was trying to kind of. We had a bunch of issues at the time with our accounting team who were and are, um, like a team of heroes, just like people that were doing a lot of really tedious work because. It didn't have a great system to, to support them and like closing out the month was just this really difficult process. And, um, you know, I don't know anything about counting, but I spent some time with them to try and understand, like, why is this just so brutal? And, um, you know, I, I think part of that, like. There's there's part of it where you're just you're learning something you're learning a part of the business. You're learning how something works. But then there's the, like, relationship part of it, right? Where you're just getting to know people that you. If you really did kind of just stay at, like, in your lane and not, um, kind of look for those other opportunities to take on projects or solve other problems. You may not get to interact with people in other parts of the company and, you know, I, I think about your experience and you, like, having a great relationship. With. The other teams at Xometry, I think was a really big factor in, in your initial success and maybe ongoing success. I don't know if you think that that's something that's continued to play a role for you. Yeah, absolutely.

Rachel Rush: 00:30:14

I mean, I don't think you can be good at product management without talking to people and getting as much exposure possible because that's part of it, right? Is learning other people's workflows and learning what's going on in other places of the company and with your customers. But also just like, the value that I get out of it, um, I've learned so many things that I didn't know how to do before. And I've learned about so many things that I didn't understand or even know before. I mean, I didn't even know what product management really was when I first joined Xometry. And it wasn't something I went after. I thought I was going to be like a developer. Yeah. But then when I learned about it, like, it was just a complete change in direction from me, but I only got there by developing these relationships and spending time with other product managers. And then I was like, oh, like, this is like a whole thing. I didn't know about before.

Becca Moran: 00:31:11

This is a thing product. That's

Rachel Rush: 00:31:15

all I'll say from now on this thing. I

Becca Moran: 00:31:16

do. Yeah. Um, I would also love to talk a little bit about, you know, you have. Moved up through the ranks at Xometry during your time there. Um, so now you're a senior product manager. Um, what has that journey been like, and like, how I guess maybe my 1st question would be. Like, what is that process? Like, was it something that you had to kind of advocate for and say, hey. Here's, here's all the things that I've been doing. I think I should be promoted from associate to product manager. Like, are you being proactive in making a case for it? Or is it more like your manager kind of tapping you and saying, all right, I think you're ready, like, here's, here's the next level and here's how your role and responsibilities will change. Like, how did that work at Xometry? You

Rachel Rush: 00:32:16

know, it's funny. I think, um, it really depends on what manager you have. So when I first started. I not only didn't know anything about product management, I really didn't know anything about working for a big corporate entity. Like, I didn't know that, like, people made promo cases and that's how you ask for promotion in some places. And I really just started doing as much as I possibly could, as well as I could. And my manager at the time kind of did tap me on the shoulder and he was like, you've been doing the job of a PM for a really long time. I didn't even know you were an associate. And so I saw your title on an email. We're going to fix that. And so I got really lucky to have like a really good manager who recognized my work. Yeah. Um, but then when I, when I wanted to become a senior PM, I did actually ask for it. Um, because I felt like I deserved it. I felt like I had reached the next level. Um, I felt like I was doing a really good job. And so that was just a really honest conversation with my manager at the time. Um, and luckily he agreed. Um, and I got it. Um, so yeah, I think, I think with every position, you just have to figure out how things are done in your department and with your current manager. Yeah,

Becca Moran: 00:33:39

yeah, I think that's exactly right. There's no kind of standard playbook for how it works in organizations and. You know, while it might be nice to think about, oh, an organization that has, like, all of the kind of. Levels laid out and like a clear set of criteria of what it takes to get from 1 level to another. Lots of organizations do not have that kind of, um, clarity or at least documented clarity around what those different levels are. And even if you do, like, um, yeah, I think it's, it's still takes a level of initiative to really say, like, okay, I'm going to be very intentional about the types of things that I do and the way that I push myself and how. Okay. I look for kind of, like, stretch roles and things that will show my manager that I can point to in a conversation and say, hey, here's here's some things that I've already been doing that are the things that I know a senior product manager does. Um, and, you know, as a manager, I have a lot of conversations with folks about professional development and I would say, like, a lot of it just boils down to, like. Initiative, um, and and I think prioritization too, because I think a lot of people, like, have the desire and I think unfortunately. Um, especially because a product role can be so demanding, like, you can kind of put your own professional development on the back burner. Um, and kind of get stuck in a place where you're not. Progressing because you're just kind of trying to keep your head above water and. You know, I think it's important for managers to really work with their teams and find ways to. People prioritize that professional development and help. Identify projects that they can take on that will challenge them, um, and give them those opportunities because it can just. In the blur of everything else that's going on, it can be really hard to, um, to put in the, the time to be intentional about your career path and, and moving up.

Rachel Rush: 00:36:05

Definitely. Yeah. I think, um, part of being a really good manager is helping the people who work for you with their professional development and not letting them forget. Um, or at least that's definitely as somebody that works for managers, it's definitely like a, something that stands out. Um, is my manager there to support me or am I there to support?

Becca Moran: 00:36:30

Yeah, exactly. I think it's a great way of thinking about it. Are you personally interested in managing people at some point in your career?

Rachel Rush: 00:36:40

Um, I've thought a little bit about it. Um, I think so. I, I like to think I might be helpful and that I've learned some things that could help some other people. Um, but I mean, I think it's a trade off, right? Because if you manage people, that's where A lot of your time is going to go, and so you might not be managing products as much. So I think it's, it's almost like a lifestyle choice. Like, what do you want to be managing? Um, so that's something I really have to think about. But yeah, I mean, I am interested in it because I feel like so many people have gone out of their way to help me and to train me. I'd like to give that back someday. Yeah, yeah, it's,

Becca Moran: 00:37:21

um, I, I had the, um, fortunate opportunity when I made the switch over to procurated. So when I left, my role was like, pretty much all management. Um, I wasn't really doing a lot of like, kind of direct product work anymore. Um, and when I joined procurated, because it was a brand new startup. Um, And that was an opportunity for me to kind of like, roll my sleeves up and get back into doing product work and, you know, writing tasks and working with the engineering team and testing new features that they developed and. For me, it was actually kind of like a refreshing point in my career to, like, come back to that. I had missed doing that stuff. Um, and so that's always something that I think about. I remember my boss at the time was like, are, like, are you okay going from, like, managing a team to being more hands on? And I was like, yeah, this is a cool, like, I kind of miss this stuff. It's a cool opportunity. Um, and so that's something that I've enjoyed, you know, I think especially. Depending on the the kind of organization that you work for, um, like being able to have those types of opportunities to do a little bit of everything. Um, I have found that to be a cool experience. So I'm sure it

Rachel Rush: 00:38:51

makes you a better manager as well. Right? Like, you got back into it. You like, refresh yourself. You're doing the work and now you're able to go back to helping others in that position.

Becca Moran: 00:39:04

Yeah, it's a good point. And I think that there's always a little like. I don't know, um, not that, like, in my current role, I also manage engineers and I always have this thing about, like, oh, well, I wouldn't want to manage somebody that, like, like, I don't know how to do the things that they do. I've become a lot more comfortable with that now. I realized that, like, that's not a criteria, but I do think it's very helpful, right? Like, I feel like I can give a product person that I manage. Better advice or better insight or whatever, because I understand their job better. Like my, my value not to diminish that the engineers that I manage, but, like, I don't know how to write code. So, like, um, you know, I do think that there's a little bit of. I don't know, I've, I've always viewed it as, like, personally establishing a level of, like, credibility around, like, okay, I want to be able to talk to someone intelligently about the work that they're doing and having done it myself. I think that's made me feel a little bit more confident in those conversations. So, yeah. I'd love to kind of double back, um, as we're nearing the end of our discussion, just to talk a little bit more about, like, this transition that you've seen from joining Xometry at, um, you know, a series B stage to, um, now post IPO, which is just, you know. Going back to what we're saying about working for startups, like, you really never know when you join, like, that, uh, the business is going to be successful. You obviously hope that it will be, um, and I don't know. I think to me, I was, I always believed in Xometry because I just felt like there was such determination around, like, making the business a success and, um, Um, you know, it just really was exciting to see, um, geometry get to that stage. So I would love to hear a little bit about, um, just what that experience was like for you. Um, did any of your responsibilities change as the company was leading up to the IPO post IPO? Like, have the dynamics shifted at all? I'd love to just hear a little bit about that part of your journey.

Rachel Rush: 00:41:50

It absolutely changed. Um, it's funny when you were mentioning your work with, um, Politico's accounting team, I felt like I could really relate to that because in the year leading up to the IPO, there's so many audits and things that you have to go through and make sure your accounting is completely set up and ours was not. And so, um, my job basically changed. I kind of became like the accounting product manager where they were like, you're going to take a team and go figure it out so we can IPO. Um, so that was a big change because I get nothing about accounting, um, but I kind of just went to their office and sat with them and we became like this whole new family. Um, but I think the biggest change is just being in the public eye and. The compliance and just knowing that the decisions you make have an effect, not only on you and your fellow employees, but on your investors. Um, there's always a lot of thought that goes in. To everything that we do, I think. From my perspective, timelines have become a little bit more serious.

Becca Moran: 00:43:08

Interesting, you know, like. Like, like, aggressive deadlines or just like. Like, do you have to work faster or is it just like when we set a deadline or when we commit to a date that something will be done.

Rachel Rush: 00:43:26

I think when you commit to a date, you have to make it very clear whether it's like you're committing or not, because if somebody makes the decision to go tell investors that we're going to have this thing by like Q2, you're going to have the thing by Q2. Like, it's not really an option not to do that at that point. Um, or at least it's a lot less of an option, and if you fail, you really have to explain yourself. So that type of thing, um, you gotta be just like, a little bit more careful, um, about our planning, but it's not necessarily a bad thing either. It's kind of forced us to pay closer attention.

Becca Moran: 00:44:06

Yeah, it's I feel like I was talking about this the other day how, like. Um, as I've worked in product longer, I've become a lot more kind of cavalier about like, oh, yeah, it can be done by then. Or we can do this or we can do that. Um, and part of it is just becoming more relaxed about like, like, people might not hold me to that or like, maybe someone will forget that I said that or, you know, people understand that things change. Um, and I don't mean that to say that I'm like, wishy washy about things, but I just, um, I've. I remember working with some product people earlier in my career that were like, very much like, please never commit us to a date. Like, just so afraid of, like, being held to an unrealistic deadline. And, um, but to your point, like, there are a lot of good reasons why, um, you have to be able to have a good read on, like, Is someone interpreting what I'm saying as like a legitimate commitment, or is there flexibility here? And what would be the repercussions if this thing, you know, didn't happen by the time we planned, or if it didn't turn out the way you planned or whatever, you know, the stakes can be, um, higher and just kind of different depending on what stage your company

Rachel Rush: 00:45:37

is in. Yeah, I definitely used to be 1 of those people who would just never give dates. I'd be like, you'll have it like sometime this year or something and that could mean like January or July, but I was so careful just like never say anything specific. Yeah, and now when I try to do that, they just like keep asking me until I give them an answer, right?

Becca Moran: 00:45:59

Right? Yeah Yeah, it's it can sometimes be a little bit of like damned if you do damned if you don't like I know I you know, you have stakeholders that are like Okay. Like what's with this, like not being able to give any sort of estimate. Um, and then there, I think there are people that understand like an estimate is only as good as what, you know, estimate when you're building custom software, like, you know, so little about like how things are going to play out. So, um, really you're trying to predict the future a lot of the time and it's just not possible. So, um, Oh, cool. That's, um, that's really interesting perspective and, you know, hopefully folks listening have the opportunity to work for companies, um, that experience that kind of success and that kind of growth. I think it's, um, just an incredible experience to, um, uh, live through and learn from and, and we'll continue, I think, to propel you through the rest of your career. So, yeah. And I, I feel lucky that I got to be a part of that with you. So, um, all right, well, let's, let's kind of round things out with

Rachel Rush: 00:47:20

our,

Becca Moran: 00:47:21

uh, rapid fire wrap up. Um, so I'll just shoot some quick questions at you before we go. Um, so 1st, do you think a, uh, friend, close friend or family member, uh, could accurately describe what you do? Um, No, uh, this is the common answer. I will say, uh, it's I remember when I first started working at Xometry, I really struggled to just describe like what the company did. Uh, and then I, I developed kind of the, like, the version of it for people. The average person who's never thought about manufacturing or didn't have any sort of engineering background and then there was like a slightly more, uh, technical version for people that like, add a little bit of context.

Rachel Rush: 00:48:15

I remember talking about that. I think we were all in like a room trying to figure out our elevator pitch because we kept having multiple pitches. It was like the 1 for people who had heard about like manufacturing and the 1 for people on the street because it just never worked for everybody.

Becca Moran: 00:48:30

It's like if you knew what a CAD file is. You're in one category. If you don't, you're in the other one. Um, all right. What is one, like, product or tech, uh, word, phrase, lingo, buzzword type thing that you wish you never had to hear again? Oh, um,

Rachel Rush: 00:48:56

stakeholder management.

Becca Moran: 00:48:58

Ooh, interesting. Very

Rachel Rush: 00:49:00

broad one, but I think it comes with some negative connotations. Um, which is not necessarily true. I love my stakeholders. I think I get along with them fairly well, but it can be challenging. And when people talk a lot about like this topic, like I see people offer like LinkedIn classes and stakeholder management, like this is how you manage these people. And I don't really look at it that

Becca Moran: 00:49:25

way. Yeah. Um,

Rachel Rush: 00:49:27

like I don't see myself as like managing them, I guess. Right. Right. Um, And so I don't know. I just feel like for some reason it just, it's a very negative

Becca Moran: 00:49:38

term. Yeah, I, I feel like that implies one that like, Um, stakeholders may always have, like, conflicting, um, priorities or incentives or whatever. Like, it's. Yeah, there's almost a simplification that they're, like, at odds with. What you're trying to do, and therefore need to be. Man, it, like, I don't know if it's.

Rachel Rush: 00:50:04

Like it'll always be a fight. I feel like when I hear that somebody's saying like, this is how you deal with the people you're fighting with. And I'm like, why are we assuming that we're fighting?

Becca Moran: 00:50:13

Can't we all be friends? Yeah. And it's hard. You know, I think there is. A lot of what you've shared today, I think, taps into a more enlightened mentality around, like, really embracing the needs of the business that can be, um, surfaced from within the business. Right? Where I think sometimes there's more of this, like. Externally driven priorities or, like, leadership driven priorities and. Um, I think sometimes these. Like, almost grassroots within the organization, the kinds of things that stakeholders often bring up to product teams. Sometimes they have to take a backseat to those other types of priorities. And I think that can be a real missed opportunity. Um, for businesses to get great ideas from the people that are just, like, in the trenches every single day. So. I, I love that answer. Um, how often do you actually talk to customers or users?

Rachel Rush: 00:51:28

Oh, no. Um, so I don't talk to customers as often as I should. Um, I will admit that upfront. I do talk to our employees every day who use our software. Um, we're lucky that we've gotten to the point where we have a research team. that does talk to our customers. Um, so when I have scheduling conflicts or drop a ball or just don't have time, um, they can kind of do interviews and record them and send them to me. Um, so that's been a really big help, but yeah, I, I haven't talked to customers yearly as much

Becca Moran: 00:52:03

as I should. I think it's a common refrain. It's like everyone knows you should be doing it more, but it's hard. It takes a lot of work to get those conversations scheduled and, um, to do it in a thoughtful way. Um, this is, this question was not intended to shame you. All right. Next question. What book or person has been most influential in your career?

Rachel Rush: 00:52:30

Book or person? There's so many people. I kind of credit my career to, um, it's hard to pick one book, so I might go with people. Um, so, you know him well, um, Michael Dixon was actually the person that first hired me and he was also the person that recommended me to work with the software team. And he was really the person who first kind of like explained to me that it is possible to change your career and it is possible to like, Learn on the job and like move through organizations and be helpful and partially because I never worked for a startup before, but I just never worked for anyone who really had that attitude. Um, it was always like, this is what we hired you to do. This is what you do like clock in clock out. It was never like, oh, you have this other idea. That's so great. Like, go run with it and then we'll like, reward you for it. That was like, almost like a foreign concept. Yeah. So he really was like, I think he's really the one that gave me like the first big opportunity to kind of prove myself and like, made it seem like

Becca Moran: 00:53:48

I could. Yeah, that's awesome. I'm a huge Michael Dixon fan. I think he's done. Incredible things for and it's just someone who I've continued to have conversations with, who just always provides great perspective and just super smart. And, um, yeah, it's another 1 of those people that I think. Knows the business so well from just really immersing himself in all different parts of it. Um, and is a really great example of how. That mindset, um. Can really just do wonders for your career of that. Um, all right, last question when you were a kid, what was your dream job? Oh, I wanted

Rachel Rush: 00:54:43

to be a rock star.

Becca Moran: 00:54:45

Yeah. Did you ever learn to play an instrument or like this thing or anything

Rachel Rush: 00:54:50

like that? No, I, I learned the piano, but I was never very good because I didn't practice. Um, I did like the oboe and band. I did chorus for a really long time, but I wouldn't say I was particularly, the oboe

Becca Moran: 00:55:06

is known to be like hard rock, you know, rock oboe,

Rachel Rush: 00:55:12

I know. So it wasn't like a dream I really went after, but in my mind I was like, you know, center stage in the stadium with a guitar,

Becca Moran: 00:55:20

Yeah. I love that. That's incredible. Um, you know, you're, you're center stage. At, at Xometry, you know, it's like kind of version. Yeah. You're a Xometry rockstar. So, you know, I love it. Well, awesome. Um, we'll wrap here. Thank you so much, Rachel. This was really fun. Um, kind of. Walking down memory lane with you and, and sharing the story with others. I hope, um, folks get a lot out of it and, um, yeah, awesome. Awesome to connect. Thanks for being on the show. Always good to hear from you, Becca.

Tim Winkler: 00:56:18

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