How We Hatched: Brian Johnson, CEO of Loric Games

Welcome to the PAIR program from hatchpad, the podcast that gives you

a front row seat to candid conversations with tech leaders from the startup world.

I'm your host, Tim Winkler, the creator of Hatchpad, and I'm your

other host, Mike Gruin.

Join us each episode as we bring together.

Two guests to dissect topics at the intersection of technology,

startups, and career growth.

All right,

jumping in here.

Brian, thanks for joining us on the PAIR program.

Um, this is another episode of, uh, a mini series that we call How We Hatched.

And so this is a little bit more of just a fun discussion to hear a little bit

more about your unique career journey and where you came from and how you arrived

at this current point in your seat today as a c e o and co-founder of LO Games.

Uh, so I always like to start by just having you, you know,

provide the listeners with the, the quick overview of Lord Games.

You know, what, what is it that you guys do here?

Um, and, and for our listeners that may not, Or, or familiar

with what, what is a game studio?

Fill us in

on that.

Sure.

Look, I mean, a game studio is exactly what it sounds like.

It makes video games.

Uh, I think in the, in the end, we're really focused on bringing

story to what's referred to as a survival or sandbox genre.

So we are focused on pc, predominantly steam games.

Our goal is to really help our players experience a heroic journey

in a genre that's typically kind of shallow in how it approach.

User journey and what the player can do and how they

experience it with their friends.

My co-founder and I really love Audible.

We listen to books constantly.

I'm massively dyslexic, so it's the only way that I can actually take that

kind of stuff in, and that's really what began our journey is comparing the books

we listen to, the narrators we listen to, which is actually a big part of it.

and, and thinking about all of our experience in video

game, we're huge game nerd.

Um, my co-founder founded a, a game studio many years ago

called Mythic Entertainment.

So he's been doing this for 30 years and really thinking about how we

bring these two things together more seamlessly than it's done in the past.

So that's kind of our focus is Lord Games is focused on narrative,

stereo storytelling for the survival.

Cool.

Yeah.

And we'll, we'll dive a, a bit deeper into that here, uh, shortly, but I'd

like to now flashback a little bit.

Right.

Let's, let's, uh, peel back.

Who is, who is Brian Johnson?

So te tell us about your journey, you know, starting from the roots,

you know, where, where'd you grow up and, and how did you get into,

you know, the world of tech and, and obviously the world of, of gaming?

Yeah.

So, oh, I grew up in Oklahoma.

Uh, it turns out not a ton to do there.

Grew up in Tulsa, . Um, and so, you know, as growing up in the, in the eighties,

I really found computers at a young age.

I just got lucky.

It just happened and.

. Um, I had a 3 86 actually.

I started with a 2 86 and, and really got into gaming from that.

That's sort of what led me down that journey, you know, bulletin board systems

and I led to muds and of course then led to DOS games like Sierra Games.

In fact, I have a Sierra online tattoo cuz that's where it all started.

And really beginning my journey started with video games, but it went from there.

I, I started looking at how games were made and how bulletin boards were.

Started getting into programming because of that, and that's

really where it all began.

It all started with DOS games and really my love of storytelling and the creative

outlet that programming gives you.

And I just kept going from there.

So I started writing code when I was, uh, reasonably young around

nine, nine or 10 years old.

Uh, my first real language was Pascal.

Uh, for those that are interested.

Tara Pascal, seven . Um, and really when, from there, my entire childhood revolved

around the time I could spend in front of my computer, whether it was playing

video games or writing code, or just working on pep projects, whatever it was.

And ultimately I got involved in a group called 2,600, which is a,

um, magazine from the nineties.

It was a hacking magazine, and they would do these meetings at like mall

food courts around the world, around the.

A bunch of nerds and again, this, these are my people.

And so I would go to the food court every other, or the first Friday every

month and eventually started turning into every Saturday meeting with these

other security focused computer nerds, all focused on Linux and programming

and gaming and all sorts of stuff.

We were those really nerdy people in the middle of the food court in the nineties.

So like it was, that's where it kind of continued to go.

That led me down a path of security and, and looking.

Um, Linux and, and thinking about system administration and thinking

about security of those things and how that can impact the IT and

everything else that went with it.

So I really had those two loves, which was video gaming and security, and of course

computers being at the center of that.

and that really guided my life from there on out.

I sort of oscillated between those two things pretty much my entire career.

Went and worked at electronic Arts for a period of time, and then I went and

worked for, um, a company doing offensive uh, security, doing exploit development.

And I went back to gaming where I worked at, uh, myth and EA again.

And then I left Meier and created a company called Divvycloud, which

was a, uh, cloud security company.

We grew that company to about 75 people.

I was the CEO, founder.

Um, for that organization grew to about 75, 80 people and

It was an an excellent outcome for everyone.

And now I'm back making, uh, video games.

So my life is just sort of bouncing back and forth in those two things.

But I think the most important thing to take away from me is, uh,

I am very fortunate to get to do what I love and how important that

is to me, cannot be understated.

Mm.

Yeah, that's a fascinating journey.

Um, I love how, you know, a lot of folks, you know, kind of always ask, you

know, how, how do you start something?

Or, you know, how do you get connected with the right folks?

Sounds like, uh, you know, that that mall food court and you guys were maybe

just throwing down on some anti Annies and, and Jamba Juice and, uh, getting,

uh, getting that networking going.

But that's, that's a really cool journey.

Um, obviously it's a, a couple of zigzags, but it sounds like it all kind

of stayed central within, you know, working with, with computers and, and,

and really kind of pursuing something that you knew, you know, you were

passionate about, kept, kept you going.

Yeah.

I think for, for me in particular, is different for every.

Um, but I have a laundry list of learning disabilities and that

made it difficult for me in school, um, you know, to to, to excel.

And so this was something that I could be good at and something that I could

enjoy and have a creative outlive.

Actually.

A lot of people don't consider programming or even security as being creative, but

it's actually incredibly creative because a number of things, different paths you

can take and different ways you can do.

So it provides that outlet to people.

And for, for someone like myself who found the keyboard was easier than writing, who,

um, struggled with reading and found that I could do it better if it was something

I was engaged and passionate about versus some textbook I got at school.

Mm-hmm.

. And then quite frankly, because, you know, as a younger person not

being excelling in school, not really excelling in sports, it gave me somewhere

to be and something to belong to.

Mm-hmm.

. And that probably meant more than anything else and really drove that passion.

So.

As people think about where they're happy in life and think about like, you

know, I'm bouncing between all these different things you're doing in life.

There is oftentimes a core thing that ties that stuff together.

Sometimes it just takes a little exploration to figure out what that is.

Yeah, it sounds

like you found it pretty early on too.

Um, so going back to, um, to mythic, right, because it sounds like this

is a pretty important area where you, you meet some folks here too that, you

know, that come, uh, come full circle with you here, up over at Lo as well.

But, um, what was your role at Mythic?

And, and, you know, tell me about the progressions in, in that, uh, company.

You know, why, what, what do you think you gained from that experience that's been

so valuable for you as a professional?

Oh man.

Um, I can tell you the first big thing that I gained that has

really played a huge role in my life has been what the, the, the

job I had before I went to Mythic.

I worked for inherent service provider, um, and it was my first real career.

, I would say out of college, but I didn't graduate, so I'll just say after I

left college, it was my first real job.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, you gotta remember, I, I spent my entire life leading up to

this moment, the moment I could finally get paid to do what I loved to do.

It was a system administration, system administration job.

And I was at the job for about a year and I hated it.

I absolutely was super unhappy to go to work every day.

It was awful.

And it led me through a real like identity crisis that I just

spend my entire youth focused on.

Something I don't actually like, uh, has it always just been a hobby

and could never be a profession, and that was a real moment for me.

Uh, so I left, uh, through just Serendip serendipitous situation.

Ended up at Mythic and uh, and left my job and went to go

join Mythic cuz I loved games.

I was like, well, let's go.

When I got there, I remember about a month and a half into my job

at Mythic, I had woke up one day, walked over to my computer, which

happened to be in my bedroom.

Cause I just had one room and started writing an email to my boss saying that

I was gonna take a personal day and work on my own personal security projects.

Um, and about halfway through the email I kind of stopped writing

and I was like, wait a minute.

What am I gonna do?

Here that I'm not gonna do at work.

The only difference is I'm gonna do like a different type of programming at work

or a different type of SAB admin stuff, and I'm gonna go to lunch with people I

like and I'm still gonna play video games.

So like, what am I doing?

And I just deleted the email and went to work and I haven't

worked a day since then.

And that was when I was 23, no, 24.

And I think the lesson that I took away from that, that's been so critical for.

. The reason I wanted to go to work is cuz the people that were awesome.

Mm-hmm.

and I loved working them and the stuff we were working on was cool and interesting

and it meant so much to me as I moved on to create my next company for Divvy

was that culture really, really matters.

Mm-hmm.

, it's the difference between taking somebody who.

Uh, loves what they're doing and someone who hates what they're doing.

It may be the same thing in two different places, but who you're doing

it with really, really, really matters.

That set me up for all sorts of decisions I made moving forward in my life.

So that's the most pivotal thing.

It turns out that the people that I worked with in Mythic and, you know,

went on with me to create things.

Divvy Cloud.

My co-founder in Divvy Cloud was my co-worker at Mythic.

My co-founder in Lork was my boss at.

So it, you know, these, these relationships matter.

The culture matters.

In fact, I would say culture is the most important thing you can build as a ceo.

Uh, that is lasting.

Yeah, that's, uh, that's incredible insight.

Um, you know, that's obviously, you know, we, we've worked with

you guys at Divvycloud and, uh, you know, in those early stages.

Um, I'm always fascinated to hear, you know, how, how it is that

you craft culture, um, you know, f for the first say, you know,

five to to 25 folks that come in.

Um, you know, what is it that you're, you're kind of looking for with

those individuals that you feel.

You know, adapt well into that, you know, that quick, fast moving environment.

Um, you know, some folks have a philosophy like at Hatch, right?

We're, you know, we just like to hire nice people, right?

Like, nobody wants to work with somebody who's a jerk.

Uh, what is it that you kind of keep as part of a philosophy to, to keep a culture

that you would feel proud about, feel good

about?

Well, first and foremost, uh, culture begins and sounds like

an obvious statement, right?

But culture begins with hiring.

Um, you know, any budding CEOs out there and founder.

Your, your job as a CEO is really three.

There's just three things you have to do, and that is you need to make sure

the company doesn't run enough money.

You need to ensure the company has a vision and you're executing on it, and

you need to attract and retain top talent.

That's it.

That's your job.

. And so in, you know, as, as a CEO in thinking about recruiting and

culture, that's where it all begins.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, if you don't bring the right people, people and you're gonna have a crap

culture, it's just the way it works.

And to some degree, if you let that go too long, it becomes almost too hard to

rectify because culture sort of starts to foster its own subculture, if you will.

So it starts with hiring.

And I think when we hire, not to go with three things again, but we do

hire, we look specifically for three.

We look for people who are passionate about what they do.

We look for people who have what we refer to as a high emotional iq.

It's long-winded way of saying, don't be an asshole.

Mm-hmm.

. And we look for people who are want to own something, wanna drive something through,

really wanna lead their mark on it.

And we find by hiring for those three things you find you start to build a

culture of people who you wanna be around.

Uh, bring energy to the table and invigorate you to go to more

and, cause they're nice people.

You want to go to lunch with 'em, you wanna go get drinks in 'em after work.

It's not like it's a chore.

Mm-hmm.

, I can't tell you how important that is.

And so when you start recruiting, identifying whatever is important to

you about your culture, about what you want to br, get, uh, have and deliver,

distill it down to something simple.

Make sure you're hiring for those.

And it doesn't matter if the person has the right skills, they can learn.

You cannot teach people how to not be a jerk.

Like that just can't happen, right?

So start out with the core values.

You want hire from that, and then people can learn skills as they go,

especially if they're passionate and especially if they wanna own things.

Yeah,

well said.

Um, you know, so, so I'm, I'm, I'm gonna circle back into this story here.

you're getting ready to start divvy.

So tell me about that transition from mythic into, you know, what

gave you the confidence to feel like, Hey, you know what, I'm gonna

go out and start my own thing here.

, um, you know, what, what was that driving factor?

And, you know, I always ask this to every entrepreneur.

Um, is that something that, you know, you felt was, uh, you know, you were your

folks, entrepreneurs, you know, where do you find you that comes from for you?

Yeah, it's a great question and I've actually done a lot

of thought to that particular thing.

Um, to, to answer the first part, hopefully, succinctly, is that,

um, it wasn't like I woke up and thought I have this amazing idea.

It was more that I kept seeing everybody else raising money and starting companies

and I was like, why can't I do that?

Like , you know, you just see these headlines and you're

like, I can get you that.

Let's try it.

But I think that actually fosters into something that, that, or

sort of leads into something that's actually more important.

That took me a long time to realize, um, the, you know, people who struggle

academically or struggle in their lives in any different way, it's not just

academically tend to learn how to fail.

And I think when I was a kid, because of.

, I learned how to fail often and it wasn't really a, I learned how to fail.

I did fail often.

I barely graduated high school.

Um, and I think that taught me how to be resilient.

And it also taught me that failure is a natural part of life.

And so I think, you know, it's a learning experience.

You just build a thick skin around it.

And so as you're an entrepreneur and you're out there starting something,

there's a couple of ingredients that are kind of nice, and that is the

one you don't know what you're doing.

And so you're real naive.

. So when someone tells you you can't do something, you're like, whatever.

Yes I can because you don't know any better.

And the second part about it is if you come to the conclusion that

failure is okay and that like, well, the worst thing that's gonna happen

is you go start a company and a year later you're out finding a job again.

So what?

Mm-hmm.

and like, I think people get trapped in that fear of failing, but.

Whatever you're gonna fail it.

A thousand things all done.

So just don't worry about that.

Just start eating a whale, one bite at a time, and eventually you'll get there.

Yeah.

So, you know, that's, that's great.

That's well said.

Um, you know, I think, uh, one of those consistent, you know, traits that we see

and, and, and leaders, uh, entrepreneurs, founders, um, is resilience.

You know, having that grit, having that ability.

To get over, uh, rejection and, and rejection, uh, often heard.

Um, you know, one of those three things that you pointed out as part

of a C E O is, uh, you know, funding.

Right.

You know, bringing in that, that, that money to, to get things rolling and,

and, uh, you know, extending runway, um, you know, at Divvy Cloud, you

know, was it that you believe, you know, investors were really buying.

, uh, when they were, when they were, you know, presenting you a check,

uh, was it the, the concept, the topic, or do you think it was the

team that you all had assembled?

Uh, what, what was it that helped you kind of get some of that, that

funding secured in the early days?

Well, I assure you that what I thought was getting us

funding, uh, was not actually the case.

Um, you know, I thought I had this amazing idea and Chris and I, I didn't

say I, we had this amazing idea of how we were gonna change the world

and cloud, you know, how we were gonna make cloud computing so much.

I think in retrospect, as I look back on that, first off, we didn't end up building

what we said we were gonna build and we built something entirely different.

and that, you know, that's fine.

I think people bet on the, on Chris and I, um, they saw two people who were

very passionate about what we were doing and who had experience in the industry.

We had spent our time at Mythic when I was there, you had asked this

question earlier, I spent a lot of my time on the ops side doing system

administration, um, and building the opim and, and running and deploying

these massive multiplayer online.

. And I think the, you know, through that experience, we, we migrated

We did the migration from data centers to cloud.

And yes, that's what gave us some of the ideas we wanted to have.

And that gave us credibility when we were raising money from our investors.

They weren't betting on the idea as much as I thought they were,

they were betting on Chris and I.

And, and as I look back on that now, and as in my own interactions

with, with, uh, advising entrepreneurs, that is that the core.

is one of the most important things.

You'll, you'll, you'll hear a theme here, people, people, people mm-hmm.

. Like that's what matters.

And in the end, the team of Chris and myself and one of our other founders,

Andrew Mann, who unfortunately ended up passing away a few years into

the, uh, into the startup, those three people brought ideas to the

table, but more importantly, they, we knew the industry well enough

to be able to pivot when we needed.

And that's what the investors are banking on.

So if you're starting a startup and you're looking around the table, the

people you're doing it with, and none of you have lived or breathed the thing

that you're trying to solve for, you may want to consider a different approach.

. Mm-hmm.

. Uh, but if it's, but cause that's what people we're gonna bank on,

that's what they're gonna say.

This is a team that can go and be resilient and pivot and figure it out.

Because Indian entrepreneur will tell you, you have two things

wrong with any business when it first starts your budget and your.

So just embrace that it's cool, and just roll with it and

you'll figure it out as you go.

You don't have to be right today.

You just eventually have to be right.

That's all

right.

Yeah.

Just two minor things like your budget and your idea, like that's

change those, and you're good.

. Oh, that's great.

So.

You know, so, um, you know, as a local, a local founder here, I, I'll give, you

know, divvy Cloud, a huge shout out.

You know, we, we looked at you guys as a, as a startup sweetheart.

You know, you guys, like you mentioned, and you were, you were

right in that sweet spot, right?

and, and it's steamrolled since then.

Um, you spent seven years.

At Divvy Cloud building this, you know, you would probably

call your baby at this time.

Um, you know what, um, what was it, you know, timing wise, right?

Why did, did you just feel like, you know, it was time to, to.

To sell or, you know, did you guys have ideas in, uh, you know, early

on of like how big you wanted to get this thing to before an exit?

Um, you know, what, what goes through your minds and when you're, you know,

planning, uh, you know, like seven years from now, this thing will be sold.

I, I always like to hear that because, um, oftentimes you're just trying to

see like what's next year gonna hold.

Um, how, how did that play out for you guys?

Um, you know, in getting to that, that.

. Brian Johnson: Yeah.

I mean, we weren't thinking about selling when we were approached

and we were always taking meetings.

Mm-hmm.

but they're always, you never think it's actually gonna happen.

I mean, even looking back on it, that was always the goal, but

you don't actually think it, like really believe it's gonna happen.

And, and as we got to that moment, I didn't wanna sell.

Um, you know, my co-founders and I, we looked at it.

We are all.

having a, we were having a lot of fun.

The, the, the company was finally really scaling.

We had been doubling revenue for three or four years and really

just been doing a great job.

Mm-hmm.

, we had a great team, and in fact, one of my, none of our

investors wanted us to sell.

And one of them, uh, ll he was a, just an amazing investor and partner.

Um, you know, he sort of said, look, you're never gonna

have a team like this again.

Um, I dunno if he's right or wrong about that, but it

certainly, it made me, gave me.

. Uh, so we didn't really want to sell necessarily, but then I talked to

another one of my friends who had been through an exit and said, how

do you know if it's the right thing?

Mm-hmm.

. And he just said, look, write down the top five things that matter

to you about selling your company.

Like what do you want to get out of it?

What is, what does good look like?

And I sat down and, and wrote down.

I can't remember all of them exactly, but I can certainly remember the top ones.

, you know that the people that everyone made money.

Mm-hmm.

, not just the founders, not just the investors, but everybody in the company

got to make money that the company they were going to was a good culture, a good

place for people to go to and, and grow.

So, you know, they're gonna leave Didi Cloud behind and

go join us other organization.

It's gonna be a good home for them, right?

Mm-hmm.

that, that we could go into a company and that our product was

going to not just be a tuck-in or an add-on, but we were gonna help lead.

, any of the company we were joining or the market that we were growing into.

Mm-hmm.

, and I think in the end, all those, and there's a couple more in

there that I can't remember, but I do remember them being five.

In the end, all the boxes were checked.

Mm-hmm.

and I called my friend back and I said, all the boxes are checked, man.

He said, that is rare.

Usually going through an exit, you have to give up on one or two things.

Maybe it's not exactly right company, but the money is good.

Or maybe the money is not great, but maybe the company's beautiful.

whatever it is, you're kind of giving up on some, maybe not all the employees

get to actually make money this time.

Mm-hmm.

in this case we did.

And he said then if this is what good looks like and this meets

good, what are you waiting for?

And I think that really sort of got me thinking about it and thinking

about like, look, you know, there's no, there's chapters beyond this

chapter that I get to go do.

I'm gonna go back to making video games and that kind of stuff.

So even though I was.

. I mean, it was hard for me.

My wife will tell you, I woke up every day during the acquisition

questioning why we were doing it, because I loved going to work every day.

Um, but in the end, all those criteria were meant.

People made money, the employees made money, the employees had stable great

jobs, and a good culture to go join.

You can't ask for anything more than that.

So yeah, go out on top and go onto the next

thing.

Yeah, and the timing was interesting too, right?

Was so, was this, uh, right in the heart of the pandemic?

Yeah.

Uh, we sold the company, I signed the paperwork, uh, in

Wow.

Um, so we had literally, um, met with them in Vegas in December, thinking there was

no way they were gonna put up the money We asked for, they came back in January.

They made an offer and exceeded our expectations.

Uh, Corey, the CEO over there, who's just a tremendous ceo, and I got to go

out to dinner and I got to know him.

We spent about five minutes on price and.

two hours on culture.

And that Matt told me that was like, that told me this is the right thing, right?

But again, this is all during pandemic, so we're trying to be all like sketchy.

And I went into the office two weeks later to excuse people to go

home and saying, look, we're, we're all gonna go home for a little bit

cuz of this whole pandemic thing.

I'll see you guys in a month, right?

Mm-hmm.

, that obviously didn't happen.

And so a month goes by, the deal gets closed.

I have to announce that the company.

Um, over Zoom that were being acquired.

And it was this sort of bittersweet moment because we didn't get to

really celebrate together as a team.

Um, I didn't get to meet people in person when I gave out individual letters

showing them how much money they made.

Like all these missed opportunities for them and for myself.

But in the end, um, it still worked out great.

The acquisition went in incredibly well.

We had basically no attrition, uh, through the first, you know, two

years of being a part of Rapid seven.

I think the pandemic was sort of a crazy time for it to happen, but it happened.

Mm-hmm.

and we all did.

Okay.

Yeah.

That's fascinating.

Well, one just awesome stat you just threw out there, you said two years with,

with no attrition after post-acquisition.

Uh, that's, that's remarkable.

Um, when you sold, uh, what was the headcount, do you

recall, of Divvycloud at that

time?

Uh, somewhere between 75 and 80.

Um, I can't pinpoint it exactly cause we were growing really,

really fast at that point.

Yeah.

So I don't exactly know where it landed, but it was about 75 or 80.

Yeah, there was

a, there was a couple years where that was just rapid growth.

Um, I always like to ask this question too, so, you know, just

under a hundred and headcount, you know, what was your favorite,

do you ha did you have a favorite stage of of, of running divvy cloud?

under 10, was it 25 to 50?

Uh, when, when was, you know, a time where you're like, man,

that was, that was a blast.

I mean, the whole thing sounds like it was a blast, but what, is there a

certain time that you'd say stands out?

Yeah, I mean, the first four years were an absolute grind.

Um, and you know, the first four years that we maxed out like 15.

20 people, somewhere in there.

Mm-hmm.

. And, um, I didn't know what, I still don't know what I'm doing.

I, but I knew less of what I was doing then, and we were just trying,

we didn't have market fit and we're just trying to make it work.

And there's some parts about that I really enjoy.

Mm-hmm.

, like there were some great parts about that.

Uh, you're really living in that moment, but I would say the next

four years when we landed our series A funding, um, and we.

Really started to execute at a high level.

We really found market fit.

I think the most important thing we found is our marketing message in our voice.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, to be able to, to sort of break ourselves apart from the rest of

the audience, really double down the product areas that mattered, started

to bring on just incredible customers.

And then we got our series B like that, that timing was so much fun because

you're not worried as much about, am I gonna make numbers next quarter?

Am I gonna make numbers this.

Like you're still worried about it.

It still keeps you up, but it's not like earliest stages of the company.

I remember we were two weeks away from running out of money

and I was in the delivery room.

With my wife, uh, going into labor and I had to sign our series A

paperwork in the delivery room.

Cause we, cause I was like, I gotta get this done and we're gonna run outta money.

Like, you know, , would I relive that moment again?

Probably not.

Um, but, but the next ones, you know, like Absolutely.

And I think, uh, it was just a ton of fun those last couple years.

So.

Like scaling from 25 to 75 was just a ton of fun.

Yeah.

I honestly, I think that's right.

Ram.

When we joined too, we, we were partnered up at that point.

You guys had just moved into a really cush office.

You know that those are good times.

I mean, you, you, you are able to create, really reinforce

that culture too at that point.

A little bit of more, a little bit of money coming through and,

uh, just taking care of people.

It was a really good time.

Um, I wanna talk a little bit about, uh, before we transition a little bit

more into lok, I wanna talk a little bit more about this transition, you

know, the post-acquisition for yourself, um, you know, going into Rapid seven.

So, you know, there's always some, some terms that apply, right?

You need, you gotta stick around for X amount of time.

Um, What, what was that like for you?

Uh, you know, going from the, you know, the, the, the rapid, you know,

grow startup environment, uh, into, you know, a big, stable organization,

uh, solidifying a role there.

Tell me a little bit about that transition, and then tell me a little

bit about, you know, why, you know, maybe that that wasn't the long fit for you.

Sure.

Well, I mean, I start off by saying that we got really lucky.

Rapid seven is a fantastic company.

So we, we joined a great team.

Um, the, the culture there mirrored ours.

They really invest in the people like we did, and, and that was really meaningful.

So when I made the transition, I was actually really excited

because it was an opportunity to.

Try something new.

Um, I was gonna be an executive at a publicly trade company and all those kind

of crazy stuff, and I was super excited.

It was great for my ego and, uh, I, you know, it was gonna be a lot of fun.

I was, you know, the team was gonna grow and almost double in size.

Uh, I think when we left we were a hundred and something hundred 40 plus

or something that, and it was, I was super excited about the transition,

even though I was sad to, to be leaving the startup behind, like leaving that

kind of like owning the company behind.

But on, on the other hand, Rapid seven did a great job of dropping the product

in place and we could, you know, we sort of took over a division of Rapid

seven, so we got to kind of op, you know, operate fairly autonomously.

There's a whole thing about like how Covid even impacted that we

can go into another time, but like the impact of it wouldn't work.

Working remotely at that time also had a big impact on that.

But I think as I started that process and uh, and you know, if Corey

ever listens to this, he won't be surprised by this because we had

lots of conversations about it.

You know, I just started thinking about.

About six or seven months in, I, I just said, look, you know, this role requires

a different set of skills, a leader, an executive in a publicly traded company

than the kind of skills that I had and the kind of skills that I wanted to have.

And so I think any, anybody can learn anything if they want to,

and anybody can change if they want to, but you have to want to.

And so I think as I was playing a role as an executive and a company of that

size, um, my role changed a lot from being more hands on with the people.

More hands.

You know, I was, I was less, I was less hands on with the people

actually working on the product.

I was less hands on with the actual product, and I was doing more of a

company building at a higher level.

And while that stuff can be really fun, it's just not where

my soul was or my heart was.

And so, and, and to be fair, I wasn't very good at it.

Um, you know, I think in the end, I, I went to Corey, the ceo, and I said,

I'm not particularly great at this job and you could find somebody who's

really much better at it than I am.

I could get good at it, but I don't know that I want to.

Um, and it was that sort of level of transparency and openness that Rapid

seven and Corey in particular had that allowed us to find a really good path.

I mean, , I didn't have any reasons to stay.

They, they didn't, they didn't hold anything back from me, from like, I

didn't have to stay if I didn't want to.

Mm-hmm.

, uh, and we had open conversation about it.

And so I think for me, lesson learned, like just be open and

transparent with the people around you.

Trust their ability to have emotional intelligence and be able to have

a rational conversation with you.

And if you do, you know, you're not surprising people with anything.

And that's really all they want.

They just.

To not be surprised.

I ended up staying on a rapid seven for another, you know, all the way

through a good portion of the next year.

And, and really sort of helping that transition finalize I, you know, helped

lead an acquisition during that period of time, um, and had a great experience.

But in the end, it just that com, that large company just wasn't right for me.

Yeah, man.

And good for you for acknowledging it and listening to yourself.

You know, a lot of folks will get comfortable and, and, uh, just kind of

keep coasting, but you, uh, sounded like you also had a, had a, an itch, right?

Something, something was, uh, you, you had to go pursue something else.

And that's kinda lead us into what's going on over here at Lo game.

So, um, tell me a little bit about, you know, I, I'm always curious about

this, like, you know, when you're, when you're thinking about, like starting

that next thing, You know, is this, this is happening over a course of,

you know, months that you're syncing up with, with some of these, some

of this crew from the past life.

Um, you know, are you guys meeting up and, and talking about this idea?

And, uh, just tell me, tell me a little bit about that transition and like how

you get the group of founders together.

Yeah, I, uh, no.

So first off, I'll say that the, I had a, just a tremendous dCloud.

Uh, the investors were actually fantastic, which is not

something you hear very often.

The board, I, I became very good, good friends with the board members, and one

of 'em is George Gretzel, who is the me, uh, managing director over at Mission og.

And, um, I called him and I was like, so I kinda wanna go do something else.

Should I just go do it?

And his advice to me was, why don't you just take some time and get bored first?

And I was like, yeah, it's fair.

So, so I sort of took time off of work.

Like I, I left Rapid seven and I had spent the next, roughly I would say,

eight months from the moment that I was no longer working day to day.

And I really spent it with my family and I spent time doing stuff and I remember

sort of sitting around and I was content and happy, but I had this like, To go do

something else and do something again.

And I really waited till I got bored.

And, and then, you know, all along though, it's not like I wasn't fostering it.

I was going to have lunch with Rob, my co-founder, um, and one of my

other co-founders, Ray, I met up with him for dinner and we were talking

and started bating ideas around.

. And then finally I just sort of got to that point and I was like, you

know, I just, I need to do this.

And, and there was an interesting moment here where my, you know, it's different

than the first time you do it this time around your back's not against the wall.

You, you know, if it doesn't work, you're gonna be okay.

Mm-hmm.

, um, you know, it's gonna be okay.

So, so that was a little different and I sort of, Dipped my toe in.

Rob and I put money into the studio.

We found a founding team, all four mythic people who we wanted to work with.

We got in place, we started ramping things up in June, and I would say come November

of that year, so this is last November?

Mm-hmm.

, uh, my wife was like, are you okay?

And I was just like, you know, I am, but I'm not.

I was trying to find a balance between, I didn't want to go back to being the

entrepreneur, uh, husband who was never around and the father was having a

hard time finding time with these kids.

Like I didn't wanna get back to that.

So I was sort of holding back and I said, you know, I'm not a hundred

percent in because I'm worried about what that's gonna do for my balance.

And she just looked at me and she really encouraged me.

And she said, look, you're clearly.

, it's bothering you and you're not gonna be present if you're bothered.

Trust that you have learned lessons from the past.

Mm-hmm.

, apply them moving forward, but go put yourself fully into it.

And since then I've just been 110% in and loving every minute of it, but still

making sure that I am listening to the, that that little voice in the back of

my head about like, Hey you, you don't need to have that meeting tonight.

You can go, go, go hang out with the kids.

Right.

Like having that has been awesome.

Wow.

Yeah, your wife sounds like an awesome person too.

Like that's, that's a, that's a great support system and

you gotta have that, right?

I mean, with, without that, you know, you're kind of on your own island.

Um, I know firsthand too, my wife, she handles a lot of.

a lot of my shit, you know, as a, as a small, small business owner and

it's, you know, it, it's so important to, to have that support system.

Um, so then, you know, you, you got, um, you got a, a crew, uh, together here

and, um, you, you tapped some shoulders of some, some previous folks that you've

leaned into from advisors to investors.

Um, You know, pillars, you know, when, when building a business.

Um, was there anything that stood out to you?

Um, from, um, yeah, just kind of like those early days that you,

you really wanted to make sure that you course corrected on from,

from the divvy cloud early days.

Obviously it's a little bit of a different environment, but were there things

that you were like, oh, I know for sure I'm not, I'm not doing that this time.

You

know, it's, it's funny, um, there's actually two parts to that.

There, there are certainly things that I look at and go, I'm not repeating that.

One of them is, um, you know, you, you, you can hire faster because

you know what you're looking for.

Uh, you get HR systems in place faster, and so you just, you learn.

The first time round is really an experience in learning what

matters and how to prioritize.

I remember Chris, my co-founder and I at divvy spending days arguing about

minute details of the new SaaS service that we were gonna launch, and we like

cranked at it for like months and we argued and we debated and all this

stuff, and then we launched it and nobody signed up and it didn't matter.

like, and so like you just, you take those moments and go, what really matter?

and you get better at saying, you know, these things don't matter.

One of my advisors gave me great advice.

You're gonna, you're gonna make a thousand decisions this year.

Maybe 1,000,005 of them are gonna matter.

And so the question is, which five?

and that's what you should focus on, like as you're thinking about decisions,

is this one really one I have to worry about or can I let people around me

make the decisions and own it, and do I really need to be involved?

And I think that's something that I grew and learned at

Divvy that I'm taking on here.

Mm-hmm.

, I think the, the flip side of that, that I, I'm finding interesting is

that sometimes as an entrepreneur, a second time, you focus on like,

oh, I'm never gonna do those things.

, but actually it's important every now and again, sit down and say,

but what things did I do right that I need to make sure I repeat?

And, uh, that I think is something more recently within the last couple

of months I've been paying attention to, which is I started focusing on

all the things I wasn't gonna do.

And instead of thinking about all the things of like, yeah, but these things

worked and I need to do them again.

Um, and, and I think, and not taking in for granted and, and culture

is of course one of them, right?

Um, you know, making sure we're hiring the right people and that kinda stuff.

So I, I'd say that's almost as important as the things you don't wanna repeat.

Yeah, that's, that's al That's awesome.

Um, uh, with the, with Lithic, uh, let's, let's dive a little bit deeper

into, into what you guys are doing here.

So you've been around for how long now?

Uh, we, the company was officially founded in

Okay.

2022.

Sorry.

2022.

Okay.

Yeah.

I was like, wait a minute.

Uh, and they're excusing me.

I was like, oh, you were doing this on the side at Rapid seven?

No, no, no, no, no.

2022.

Not bad.

So then, um, and what, what, uh, what's the size of the, of the team now?

How, how big is, um, I is the, the team over there

we're 12 people now.

Including my, my co-founder, well, Rob Denton and myself, the

investors and I, other co-founders.

So I sometimes call Robert.

I only say cuz Rob and I are the ones who put money into it.

But we have actually a whole team of co-founders that really were there

the day the studio was founded.

Wow.

Um, were employees on day one.

We had about four of them.

Um, and they all bring a ton to the table.

Amazing people have around Ray Soto and, and Gabe Carter.

Joe and Colin, these are just like amazing people to have on your side of your team.

So what are those skillsets?

Well, Colin is O c t O.

Ray is our art director.

Gabe is our lead designer and, and Joe actually designs end programs,

which is an incredible skill to have.

You sort of go back and forth.

Uh, Colin I worked with at Mythic, he was my boss actually at.

He was the CTO there as well.

Uh, Ray was an art director at Mythic when I was there.

Rob obviously founded Mythic.

So these are all pe a good chunk of 'em I'd all worked with before.

Yeah, I was excited to work with again.

In fact, uh, Colin reminded me recently that on my last day at Mythic, before

I left to go create divvy, I stopped by Colin's office say to say goodbye.

And he reminded me that as I was leaving, I said, Hey look, I'm gonna go

start this company and when I'm done, we're gonna go create a game Studio

I totally forgot that I said that, and he reminded me of that recently.

And I was like, well, there you go.

It actually happened.

, Tim Winkler: do you do uh,

Like that's, You hit a crystal ball.

That's awesome.

Um, alright, well I'm gonna, uh, I wanna jump into a couple more questions about

Lo and then we'll then we'll close with the, um, a rapid fire q and A segment.

Um, but, um, you know, with, with, uh, Lord Games, you know, what, um,

you know, what, uh, types of, types of folks, uh, are gonna thrive here,

you know, what types of skill set do you like to, to hire for over.

. Brian Johnson: Well, again, going

emotional IQ and the drive, those are the things that are gonna matter.

The good thing about the game industry is passion's not hard to come by, right?

Uh, people go to the game industry cuz they want to.

You make less money in the game industry than you can make other places.

But you're here because you love.

gaming and you love making people happy and, and that's what drives you.

Yeah.

Um, obviously the high emotional IQ is also important.

Uh, you know, making sure that you, you're a good teammate, you

work with people and then drive.

I mean, it's a startup.

We're, we're not, this company's not gonna get bigger than 30 or 35 people.

That's something Rob and I sort of talked about early on.

Hmm.

Um, and so part of that means that everyone's gotta

own pieces of what they do.

They wanna leave their marks.

Those are the things we really looking for.

Mm-hmm.

skills.

Yeah.

Look, we need people to, we'd like it if people have had, uh,

launched or worked on a game before.

That's always good to have credits under your belt.

Um, not necessary.

And I think the other thing we're gonna be looking for is we have a remote workforce.

As of right now.

A lot of people are remote, but we're gonna start staffing up here locally.

Mm-hmm.

, um, and really start building a local culture around, uh, around our games.

Yeah,

that's an important thing to point out.

Right.

It sounds like that was important to you at Divvy, and it's gonna be important to

you here that that foundational group, you know, you want 'em local, you want folks

to come and, and have that camaraderie.

Um, so, so, um, you know, to put a bell on it with, with lo, you know, what,

what can folks really be excited about?

Look, I mean, nothing, uh, nothing will do publicly.

, maybe some artists for that . Uh, but I think what really they're gonna

see, uh, you know, and what if they're looking and are interested in what

we're doing, you know, I would say not what they're gonna see, but what

they're gonna find if they come and explore and spend some time with us.

And where they're gonna find is a group of really passionate people who are trying to

build something that they're really proud.

. And I think that it's an industry you can do that in uniquely.

Uh, whereas other industries like enterprise software and that

kinda stuff, yeah, you're proud of what you're building, but

it's not quite the same thing.

Um, you know, you know that you're building software that

some CIO or ops person's gonna use every day and that's awesome.

It's different when you're building a piece of software that you know,

people are gonna look forward to coming home to after work, who are gonna look

forward to spending time with their.

Playing.

And so that's just incredibly exciting and awesome.

And so I think if people were looking at what we're doing, I'd pay attention

to the type of company we're building, and that's what we're building.

A company full of people who want to go and build something really

awesome and be really proud of it.

That's awesome.

Good stuff, man.

I can't wait to, to keep tracking it.

We're excited here as well.

Uh, I'm gonna transition here.

It's one of my, my favorite parts here.

This is called the Five Second Scramble.

So we're gonna do a couple rapid fire questions.

You know, try to keep 'em under five seconds on your answers,

uh, mix of business and personal.

So, uh, we'll kick it off here real quick.

So explain to me, you know, what Lore games does as if I was a five year old.

We make badass video games.

. I wouldn't say it through a five year

old though, . You could.

Why not?

What makes your studio different than other studios?

That's hard to say.

I would say the people and the focus on the people that matters.

A lot of studios focus on product.

We're focused on people.

What

is your favorite aspect about working at lore?

. Brian Johnson: The people.

The people

kinda keep you that.

It's, it's a thing.

What aspect of your culture do you fear most?

Losing with

growth?

Uh, connection with people.

Mm-hmm.

, I think in the end, and that's actually part of the remote thing as well.

Making sure you're building real relationships are not transactional.

Mm-hmm.

, is there anything about your work that keeps you up at

night?

Building a crappy game, , it's probably the number one thing.

What is, uh, what's your favorite, um,

favorite cereal?

Favorite cereal?

Ooh uh, honey nut checks.

Oh, and Lucky Charms.

Lucky Charms Classic.

Uh, if I caught you at an airport waiting for a flight, what's

uh, what's your drink of choice?

Ooh, at an airport, it's gonna be a beer or a Bloody Mary.

Nice.

What, uh, who's a tech entrepreneur that you find fascinating.

Fascinating.

In what way?

Morbidly.

Uh, that would be Elon Musk.

Musk, uh, From a morbid perspective, uh, I would say the one that I, I, I,

you know, there's a lot that I look up to, um, across the board, but.

. You know, everyone said Steve Jobs always gets up there because he is

just like, like any entrepreneur who just said, screw you to the, to the

world and did what they wanna do, I love, but yeah, you know, I think I

will go back to mu So the guy's a jerk.

He's an ass, but.

. I also, it's hard to point at anybody else who has done the things that he's

done with rockets and with mm-hmm.

cars and with everything he's the, he is the antithesis of someone

who says, I can do it, and I'm not gonna let anybody tell me otherwise.

And I think that's awesome.

Yeah.

Now he, he as a person sucks, but yeah.

Whatever.

, Tim Winkler: what, um, what do

Uh, I think I'm pretty good at making people

happy, but I don't know that.

Okay.

Do you believe there's life on other planets?

Yes.

Favorite app on your phone?

Uh, slack

the greatest video game of all time.

Oh, you can't do that to me.

That's not fair.

uh, hold on.

I know this is something people see this Colonels bequest

written by, done by Sierra.

That's a classic, huh?

Yeah, man.

What is your favorite Disney character?

Disney, yeah.

Oh, that's a good question.

Uh, I keep, I keep thinking of ladin, but that can't possibly

be true, but we'll go with it.

Sure.

Dude.

That's my favorite.

That's, that's same.

There you go, man.

Yeah, that's the right answer.

Uh, screw bar screw you bars.

Right, man.

Well, this has been a blast, Brian.

I appreciate you.

Uh, Spending some time with us here on the PAIR program and telling

the story and, uh, again, you know, love, love the innovation that's

happening here locally in the area.

And, uh, we're rooting for you guys.

Cool man.

Thanks very much for having me on.